The Ship Model Forum

foeth wrote:



...>>>>>re-engineering an entire model :....<<<<
hahahah!!

from the ueber-master of re-enginerring ....!!!

onwards again, worrying about the small stuff still ...

( the new PE is now being processed in manufacture--so soon on the big stuff! )

The ship had some small boxlike structures midships, I am guessing they are either |( crew?) heads or crew access to interdeck ventliation...( anyone know?)
anyhow
on the kit casting they were rendered square |( and too narrow athwarstships )

--and in most ( more distant ) photos they do actually look square

but closer viewing shows them to have rounded ends....
on the aft face they have a access door with a port-hole in it
the kit PE contains suitable doors -- about the right size-- but they have no frame

--ergo they look too narrow

hence need to make more more frames

this time using a different source of 1/350 handrails and these doors are a bit narrower
I make then as a " U " shape-- as the top if the door has a cowling overhang ( small strip of brass) that will be added afterwards

photo should be self explanatory.

photos of results later

JB

JIM BAUMANN wrote:foeth wrote:



...>>>>>re-engineering an entire model :....<<<<
hahahah!!

from the ueber-master of re-enginerring ....!!!

onwards again, worrying about the small stuff still ...

( the new PE is now being processed in manufacture--so soon on the big stuff! )

The ship had some small boxlike structures midships, I am guessing they are either |( crew?) heads or crew access to interdeck ventliation...( anyone know?)

access a.jpg

anyhow
on the kit casting they were rendered square |( and too narrow athwarstships )

--and in most ( more distant ) photos they do actually look square

but closer viewing shows them to have rounded ends....

access top dec bk.jpg

on the aft face they have a access door with a port-hole in it

access top deck.jpg

the kit PE contains suitable doors -- about the right size-- but they have no frame

--ergo they look too narrow

hence need to make more more frames

this time using a different source of 1/350 handrails and these doors are a bit narrower
I make then as a " U " shape-- as the top if the door has a cowling overhang ( small strip of brass) that will be added afterwards

photo should be self explanatory.

photos of results later

JB

P1230884.jpg

And... You will notice that on the first pictures those doors are showed open.

And Bravo! for your excellent work.

I wouldn't expect less from you.

the door is now open on the starbord side

actually it is ' opening...'
there will be a ( crew ) figure coming out of the doorway...
( partly to disguise that is not hollow (!! |)


and partly to draw a bit of interest

studying the photos again, I will sand off the paint on top and add a
seperate paper / brass roof to get a flatter and sharper roof
and to increase its height very very slightly, and add a new door bigger top cowl

JIM BAUMANN wrote:
The ship had some small boxlike structures midships, I am guessing they are either |( crew?) heads or crew access to interdeck ventliation...( anyone know?)

The attachment access a.jpg is no longer available

Well, how about stairways?

They connect the decks from the promenade deck up to the sun deck.


If you follow the link. you can see the deck plans and you can follow the stairs down from the sun deck through the boat deck to the promenade deck. I can't find them anymore in the main deck so I'm assuming they end on the promenade deck.
https://earlofcruise.blogspot.com/2015/ ... 42-iv.html


Part of the Sun deck plan as an appetiser:

Amazing research and build.

Incredible fortitude and the usual attention to detail. The sheer number of openings (potholes, windows, doors, vents) on the superstructure of these liners is intimidating.
You managed to make them all look very sharp!

While the new- Mk 3 - ( third version of the promenade windows ) PE is being etched as I write--
so soon we will be back onto tangible bigger stuff again,

but meanwhile work is continuing on the minutia

as promised- -I revisited the stairwell roofs--making replacement items in brass


so as to have ' near=flush ' windows, I had to fill the sides and the stern windows.

The sides I did a while back--but the new PE also now has overlays for the rounded stern sections
these areas will be painted black ==> and the pre-shaped/ bent and pre--painted white PE
will then be applied over the top -- with luck they should look crisp!

these were flattened off befpre the filler was applied a ittle to compensate for the PE thickness somewhat
the very distinctive, elegant and large breakwater on the bow had braces on its inside

these were cast on ..and were not to my liking alas.
adding ( experimental ) paint made things worse
so I removed the cast braces.

the real thing looked like this

( note the curved aft face of the whale back-I pared and sanded away the casting whose section was too square
until it looked about right

) The hand rail and lower strake above the hollow undercut was added of thin wire

The breakwater, whilst the correct height did not have enough of an undercut "curl" for my interpretation of photos.

I added a thin length of stainless steel wire and backfilled to this beading with paint and white glue
thereafter I pared away the resin breakwater up to the stainless bead to obtain a thinner breakwater and some degree of curl on the inside face

the effect of the undercut obtained was more pleasing

( poor quality photo alas...)




The braces I added were made of white paper triangles ( very small ! ) as painted brass and styrene were a bit clunky.

the limitations of scale and my own clumsiness ( and will ) prevented me from making it exactly right;
but the effects is more pleasing to the eye and is " about right"


The bridge casting had previously been prepared, and now was about to be fitted up with my new custom PE pieces

but first the bridge wings needed attention, as when a crew member in 1/700 was offered up the the wind-deflector shields he was a bit too talll !! soem serious paring away with a blade ( bridge wing well supported whilst paring

( on a post it-note pad reduced to appropriate thickness ! ! ! )
Thereafter the bridge with its etched fwd face and side faces ( with the now correct asymmetric side window disposition, ! )
has started to take shape
The navigation light aperture was at best 'miscast' , at worst....

after a bit of probing and cleaning up , I framed it in thin PE, garnered from a handrail
so as to get sharp edges.
( I may revisit this after paint ?)

a small diversion- handrails -which weer enjoyable ni an odd way...

The designers of Nomandie took pains in making the ship smooth and beautiful,
with wonderful and elegantly proportioned windows

and the the reality set in..... and they added handrails; which bisected their beautifully proportioned windows

its an imperfection, like a pimple on the face of a beautiful lady...



the boat winches...
often neglected and not always considered in small scale liner models,

these are complicated structures (and very small in 1/700! )
the cast items are OK in size and outline, but will need " bits" adding

but the wire- rope drums fwd face s were an unattrcative shape no 1



after a bit of pencil work I was ale to better define the outlines no 2


After more working in the effect was improved. no 3





I may yet cut off the outboard faces and add PE or paper discs

undecided at the moment!

The things that do not have photos, are the ( seeming!) hours of test-fiting, re-re-re-re aligning the superstructure decks
versus bridge structure versus the fwd funnel base structure, == as they all interconnect ...

The sanding off the hull surfaces to remove the traces of the 3-d printing ridges,
the sanding and shaping to a blade the bow stem
the cleaning up of portholes and square windows etc etc and so on

more soon

Jim Baumann

Doing some REALLY nice detailing work here! Well done. Really love watching this ship grow.

Most Excellent!

Can hardly wait for the "more soon".

in the meanwhile:

You will notice the double doors beneath the stairwell roof are the access from the stairs to the boat deck.

And:


Why on Earth is the Packard parked there?

Believe it or not, I found out what the 1936 Packard was doing there.

you can find out too. just follow the link.
http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/forum/ph ... 50d2db917b

I knew of the crash, but your link provided as much detailed info as one could hope for!
==> A great find--

it made for most interesting reading--

and a truly great show of class on behalf of the owners of the Normandie, the CGT shipping line,
with a written plea of clemency for the the unfortunate pilot at his court-martial!-- tres sporting !

for your interests
another closer-in view of the crashed plane, suitably mangled !

and the precariously perched car with the precariously perched aircraft and Nomandie under way getting speed up... !

presumably shot from another aircraft.... that seems rather close....!

Vehicle loading onto ships back then always looked a bit scary...( especially now... when we really love our classic cars )
apropos your link, Mr Evans car --if that indeed is the vehicle in the photos ... it did not look all that terribly wrecked...(!)
eminently fixable...

maybe they had insurance scam even back then eh!

So aircraft carrier as well as ocean liner? Truly a remarkable ship.

JIM BAUMANN wrote:
apropos your link, Mr Evans car --if that indeed is the vehicle in the photos ... it did not look all that terribly wrecked...(!)
eminently fixable...

maybe they had insurance scam even back then eh!

Mr. Arthur Evans (1898-1958) was a Member of the Parliament at the time. I assume it was his car. And it was brand spanking new(it was a 1936 model and this whole thing happened in 1936). My guess is that most on the damage was on the underside of the car when the boom collapsed.

Sorry for the thread drift.

so.... having the new PE fret arrive in stainless steel-( not without issues alas--I am sending it back...

more of that another time ....

-it occurred to me that the handrails in stainless steel would be the ideal choice...

as ....

I believe the railings and stanchions on many--but not all-- of the railings where painted silver- and were not white.

boat deck and sportsdeck definitely I think

extensive watching of the Normadie colour movies

in 3 parts link to part 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po2IlbbPH0w

gives glimpses-some conclusive others not
and certain photos lead me to belive this

any thoughts and input will be most welcome!


herewith a - to my eyes-- fairly conclusive image ( courtesy of getty ) of a gent standing on the sports deck
and the lady...
an excerpt screenshot from the film

( showing also in close- up the expansion gap rather well)




and lastly... the good Reverend who built the huge and impressive half model ( cutaway with complete interior )
that is housed on RMS Queen Mary also thought so..

Hi Jim - looking good - really good.

Some background info for you - the guy on the sports-deck is playing the now forgotten sport of 'Flick the fag end'. He is just assuming the correct position, one last draw on the ciggie and he will let fly.

I have the rules somewhere in my archive!

Hope this helps

Jabber

Amazing work Jim! And at that scale too!

Ssshh! Don't encourage him! He is making us all look bad enough as it is!

haha all my e-chums !

progress is afoot.

The new PE arrived -- another (!) A3 sheet of stainless PE , a lot of PE and a lot of spares ,
so as to keep practising the optimal bending and assembly methods and techniques.

its a lovely thing to behold... even untouched and before I have to cut the tough stainless...! these are the additional window sections for the 3 x aft aft curved decks ,

the joins to the promenade decks are concealed under the stairways either side ( )
and adjacent to the swimming pool protrusion
I have been patiently cutting out the seeming myriad of davit parts ...

so as to be prepared for when its "davit time " -so that I do not feel like losing the will to live at that point!
and have been sanding the PE tabs with 1200 and the 1800 grit
( stainless is hard - but can dent when using a blade too close to the part desired)



( there are 30 boats
= 2 davits per boat - each davit has two sides = 120 davit relief etched pieces ,
plus each boat cradle has two sides relief etched 120 parts

240 small hard to cut and shape and sand PE parts--that's why I started now!
so as to have very option covered the PE was drawn so as to have the davits in slightly different 'arm' lengths
to ensure perfect symmetry and a precise line when viewed for and aft



we shall see if I can achieve it !

I ordered numerous duplicate parts --

but it does like rather daunting on the fret...( a small excerpt of the fret! )
The handrails all had substantial timber capping pieces...

Brown paint on the handrails just will not do !

I used most of the thinner brass versions from the Mk1 PE fret as the deck-edge drains and margin planks

The aft stern and 1 st class zigzag seating deck handrail was huge... ( a good 12 inches or more hence the PE fro these was larger )
The groove on the underside is to act as a guide for precise placement of rails

the upper sports and boat deck timber capping--while still large was noticeably smaller

albeit bigger than a stroke of brown paint !
more shortly!

JIM B

back again...

whilst the paint is hardening... I seek opinion...

Normandie --though streamlined and smooth.... ( Ha ! ... from a distance...!)

But the ship had a profusion of lumps and bumps when viewed close up.
One particular aspect is getting me exercised..!
The first question ...

>>> is less more << ...==> in 1/700 ?

I fully understand the concept of viewing distance; - but 'we' the modellers and our guest observers at a show view these models very close up also-- say at a scale 30 feet away ...

and on-line.... in huge magnification on large monitors often from a scale 10 feet away... (!!

The real ship had distinctive riveted reinforcing strakes on the hull around the aft bow to midships stern area -
-most noticeable on the white part but these also extended into the black part
Often seen in photos from a distance-


BUT....pending the light direction... the rivets are sometimes NOT seen...
so... the question arises...


to add or not to add these strakes and if so ... with what?
any kind of Photo-eteched riveting representation will be way overscale in 1/350 , leave alone 1/700...
especially on the overlaps

My idea was to use decal striping - in white- to create the pattern of overlaps, over-paint this again in white and seal with a coat of varnish
before adding the black paint to the lower hull

waddayathink ? to add? or not?

If I do add--- will it look credible to the observer? or just unnecessarily busy?

I am open and receptive to any thoughts and opinions.

Thank in advance

Jim Baumann

You are the hardest of hard core.

I would tend to the "less is more" school... a coat of paint can be overscale sometimes in such scales.