Calling all Royal Navy Tribal-class fans

[Cadman]

it looks like rust coloured decks to me!

Perfect color to hide the rust.

[Tim Stoneman]

I think the Armoured Box mounts were only in positions where the operator would be subject to blast from other weapons - I've seen them on the quarterdeck ("fantail" for colonial cousins) of Black Swan class sloops, where 'X' gun mounting would be a problem, but haven't noticed them elsewhere.

Tim

[Admhawk]

The Canadian Tribals used the powered mounts with the armoured enclosure for the operator. 6 of them.

I have photos that show single 20mm mounts on Iroquois and Athabaskan when they had tripod masts. They have the enclosed twin mounts after they got the lattice masts. Huron and Haida both have enclosed twin mounts with their tripods and after with the lattice masts.

[Tim Stoneman]

Darren,

As far as I can see, the photo posted on this thread by Dick (11 Nov, 4pm - captioned "The Canadian Tribals had the powered British twin mounting, seen here on Huron") shows what White Ensign Models call the "Unarmoured Box" - ie without the glassed-in enclosure top for the aimer.

Tim

[Admhawk]

Hi Tim,

I went by the photos on the WEM site. I could see the distinctive angled body on the armoured set, but I couldn't see it on the unarmoured set. It looked like there was no enclosure at all. Do you have a photo showing a glass cover?

If you look at Page 241 of British BB's Raven and Roberts, you see a reasonable photo of Valiant with the twin MK V mounts on B turret. They look the same as the DD mounts, no glass cover.

I don't have the 1/700 sets from WEM (1/700 isn't my scale) so I may be wrong, but from what I've seen, the MK V twin mount is powered and has an enclosure. I haven't seen it called armoured in any of the references I have. According to this site, http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_2cm-70_mk234.htm There is a MK VC, but I don't know what the difference is.

Unfortunately, it's not a well covered weapon in my references, so I can only go by what I see.

Regards,
Darren

[Tim Stoneman]

There are photos at http://picasaweb.google.com/pingbosun/P ... 8761547026 , http://picasaweb.google.com/pingbosun/P ... 0171612370 and http://www.hmsopossum.org.uk/Gallery/Op ... _2%202.jpg ; none of these give a clear view, but all appear to show the quarterdeck twin 20mm mountings with a slightly deeper aimer's "cab" and a raised reflective area above it , which matches the shape of the WEM parts (as supplied, and as shown on the website).

The WEM website catalogue photos aren't the clearest (but then the pieces are very small) but in the "armoured" variant (http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/pro7038.jpg), the right-hand piece in the lower row shows the enclosure most clearly (the piece is viewed from the left-hand side of the mount, and the highest point has short near-vertical sides; this represents the glass enclosure, with the metal "cab" sloping down and left from it). The actual pieces of the unarmoured variant DO have the basic metal "cab" in which the aimer sat.

[Laurence Batchelor]

I believe it is this weapon fitted late-war to the Tribals.
The power-operated twin Oerlikon MkV mounting here about to undergo routine maintenance:

[Mike W]

I put the question to John @ WEM and in his opinion the destroyers would carry the unarmoured mounts of the mk V twins. Also he suggested that the decks would have been MS2. My questions were specifically in reference to Athabaskan but I suspect they would apply to the other Canadian Tribals.
I think that combined with everyone's input here, I feel I can now make as accurate as I can out of the Trumpeter kit (other than the fact I'm not filing, sanding etc, to correct the basic kit errors) as possible. The only other thing I can think of is a deck plan for Athabaskan for 43/44 after she was fitted with the twin 20mm and lattice mast. I only have the side elevations in Friedman's book and shipcraft book. If anyone could help with that I would be most grateful.
thanks
Mike

[George W]

Mike
You have a couple of further options
Ryan Cameron has done 1/350 Athabaskan and it is displayed here or at Steel Navy and it includes some detail shots of it under construction as well as a completed model. There is also the book HMCS Athabaskan:
Unlucky Lady (perhaps published by Vanwell)or some combination of those words in the title, although Canadian it might be available in the UK via an interlibrary loan, or used bookstore. MS-2 is on common decks and I have used it on DD and corvettes.
Also there is HMCS Haida book by Gough (Vanwell) has photos of Ath and the other RCN tribals but Haida is different,ie no lattice mast until late war or early post war. I have the later book but not the first.

[Mike W]

Actually thats 1/350 model on SN is perfect for what I need. The biggest problem was the shape of the rear 20mm aa platform and searhlight area. The Trumpeter kit I'm sure ha a different shape platform with only 1 twin 20mm instead of 2.

thanks
Mike

[dick]

With reference to the suggestion that the destroyers would carry an unarmoured Mk V mount, I'm afraid that I can see no significant difference in the appearance (other than the type of sight) of the twin powered mounting carried on carriers, battleships, cruisers, destroyers, sloops, MLs, MGBs etc. Here is a sample of pictures that I hope make the point:

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/dickfalmouth/Twin20mm#

[dick]

Having now got samples of the two WEM versions of the twin 20mm AA guns I can confirm that the one you want for the Canadian Tribal is �WEM PRO 7038 Twin 20mm Oerlikon Mk V with armoured seat box�.

The other one, �WEM PRO 7037 Twin 20mm AA gun -- powered mounts NO armored box� is unlike anything that I have seen in WW2 RN photos I have. I am wondering if it is some post war thing. I think WEM need to edit their on-line catalogue as this is not the MkV mount and indeed their label wording on the thing itself (as quoted above) does not claim it to be.

The other odd thing is that you get a PE fret of the 20mm gun barrels with the 7037 but not with 7038 � so you are gun-less! But perhaps this was just a packing error in my sample?

[John Snyder]

Hi Dick,

That was a packing error. E-mail me directly and I'll get you the PE.

[John Snyder]

Now that I'm back in the States, I'm allowed to use Yank euphemisms. So--I can say that this one came sailing in from left field:


Here's your first look at our 1/350 HMS Eskimo (kit K3568), which will include parts for the RAN ships as well as the RN Tribals (we'll leave the RCN ships to Darren).

Peter Hall has finished the pattern, and will have the PE design done by the end of this weekend. Given the impending holiday closures by UK firms which will include our casters, my best guess at this time is that we could be shipping these kits by March. Like our other 1/350 kits, this will be split-hull allowing either waterline or full-hull builds from the same kit.

Feel free to pre-order now to be sure to get in on the initial production run. As always, no charge made until we ship your order.

[dick]

John,

Oh don�t worry. I have got more than enough on the fret I do have.

What would be really helpful would be if one of you resin-makers could provide a properly researched 1/700 conversion/upgrade set that recognises that the difference between an RN Tribal and a Canadian Tribal is rather more than just a lattice mast, some powered 20mms, and moving the pom pom and takes into account things like the differences in the bridge, the different director(s), the extra offices behind the bridge, the different shape of the 20mm platforms beside the bridge, the different size/shape of the lt AA platform between the funnels, the different shape and size of the forward end the of aft deckhouse deck and the varying arrangement of searchlight and radar platforms there, and the different size/shape of the aft end of the X gun deck.

[John Snyder]

Hi Dick,

What you're asking for is a pretty class-specific conversion set involving a lot of resin. Given the high development costs, not to mention casting costs, we just wouldn't sell enough to warrant it. More generic resin parts--that's another, more profitable, kettle of fish.

[gerryw]

Does anyone have drawings/photos whatever, of the Tribal class ships of the 1960s? I have the plan and profile drawings from Model Boats many years ago, but don't have the sections.

Cheers,

Gerry

[John Snyder]

The WEM 1/350 Tribal has gone off for casting--should start shipping in about 12 weeks....

[Terry]

I'm fighting off a winter cold so what better thing to do than chip away at the 1/700 Trumpeter Tribal!? I'm doing the HMS Maori circa 1939 deployed to Malta pre-war. The image from this link depicts the scheme I want to do: http://www.naval-history.net/Photo10ddMaori1GS.JPG
I assume she is AP507C � Mediterranean Fleet Light Grey, but I'm totally in the dark as to what deck colour/s to use. Can anyone please advise?

After reading this thread and the criticism of the Trumpeter kit hull not having the correct half reverse camber to the prow, I decided I would fix this with a shim of plastic sanding to the appropriate profile to the hull edges. I'm not sure if anyone has picked this up, but I thought this worth mentioning: The hull certainly is flat at the prow, but the deck part A22 (Zulu kit) actually has the half reverse camber to the prow cast into the part. So the kit part A22 acted as a quick guide to the correcting the hull and give or take a few millimeters where the camber starts also checked out against my Profile Morskie plans. It would appear that the left hand was not not telling the right hand what it was doing the day they did the cad on these parts. Either that, or my deck part just happens to have a rather serendipitous warp right where the kit hull is defective!

Anyway despite some small flaws I still think the kit is a gem.

Attached image: Straight edge to underside of A22 deck prow.

[Phil R]

I`ve just finished building WEM`s 350th Tribal,and here`s the finished article.More pics will be in the Gallery.

Cheers ,Phil