ship of the line Pennsylvania (please reply with any info)

[threebs]

I am preparing to make the port wriggles soon, any ideas on how to do this? There are some brass ones available at Model Expo, but they are a little too small, as well as not near thick enough. I need about 100 of these and it will take forever if I have to hand carve each one. I should have a few photos available soon. I am making the gun ports now, I do not know at what time warships, if ever, began laying wales recessed, that is, flush with the hull. I built this ship with protruding wales, so the lower two gun deck ports are cut into the wales. The question is, should I include the built up area of the wale,or allow the gun ports to be "recessed" into the wale? I have tried both ways, and I like the unbroken line of the wale with the gun ports closed. It looks odd with out the wale section on the gun port lid. What are your opinions on this?

[JIM BAUMANN]

The Rigoles ( eyebrows ) above a conventional porthole is semi-circular in most cases.

Here is a picture of Edward Pinniger doing his in 1/96 on an early TBD scratchbuild



Here is an image of my porthole Rigoles - a little over 3 x smaller in 1/350

same methodology.



BEFORE



AFTER



I think they make a HUGE difference in the intricacy and texture of the hull; certainly on a steel ship.


On a wooden wall...? YEP-- I think it shows a dedication to detail and accuracy.

here is a close up image of my ' local' wooden wall HMS Victory...

Making the things....

I would make a timber jig and bend them up in Copper wire( nice and malleable ) or brass and attach the using either matching paint of matt varnish. ( leastwise that's how I attach mine )

Have you a picture of what the real thing should look like?

Best Wishes

Jim Baumann

[threebs]

Thanks for the tips! Looking at the photos and the suggestions opened up my mind a little and I have come up with something that will work! The wriggles look to be about 4 inches wide, or 1/16th inch in 1/72 scale. I have some brass stock that wide and 1/32 inch thick. I made a gig and bent the stock around it. I looks almost perfect! A question though, on some close up photos of the USS Constitution, there appears to be an oiled or tarred piece of canvas tucked up under the wriggles and covers the hinges. I would imagine this is further protection against rain and spray. I am not sure if this is original to the ship or a later consideration to keep the hinges dryer?

[threebs]

Here are some new photos

[Sean Hert]

Looking good! I am inspired to see attention being paid to a US Ship of the Line!

[threebs]

I have all of the gun port lids installed on the port side. I have messed up the paint job quite a bit. After I have the hinge straps all glued on, and BEFORE I add the lift ropes, eyebolts and rings, I will take a couple of photos and post them. Should be sometime around 5/30/2010. If sooner, well, it will be sooner!

[carr]

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[JIM BAUMANN]

Found a good quality close up of HMS Victory gunports which may be of use/interest...

( from this thread at modelshipworld)
http://modelshipworld.com/phpBB2/viewto ... 76&start=0

Cheers

Jim Baumann

[threebs]

Jim: Very timely post on the close up of Victory's Gun ports. I am just barely started with the eyebrows, and the lower ports on this picture show the side on width of the eyebrows to be what I believe the Pennsylvania's would have been. Anything less than 4 inch width would have been almost useless to channel rain away from the upper edges of the port lids. I see that the "lifting ropes" are seized off on rings attached to eye bolts. I had planned to seize them off to the eye bolts as photos I have of the Constitution show the ring bolts hang free. In the book "The built-up Ship Model" by Charles G. Davis, on page 119 there is a labeled drawing that shows the ring bolts to be "for port pendants". I had intended to use this drawing as the basis for my model. I have all the hinge straps and eye bolts on now. i am awaiting a cutting jig to help with the sawing of the hinges themselves. The eyebrows are proving to be time consuming as I need to hand file each to size after shaping on the jig. (I made one out of steel to replace the wooden one as the wood would indent as I bent the brass around the edge.) Once again, let me say I appreciate your taking the time to help me along with this project. It also shows the " port lifting ropes" as entering the hull above the eyebrows whereas the Constitution shows them to be under the eyebrows. Do you think this is one of those areas where American ship design deviates from the British just to be different, or is there a more practical reason? The Constitutions lids are "half lids", therefore not as heavy, and thus less leverage is needed to pull them open? I a inclined to think this is the case?

[carr]

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[threebs]

Yes, I know some of the current Constitution are modern add on's, like I found out the current ship has rain covers tucked under the eye brows to sluice off water that the original did not have, but, the split gun port doors are original equipment. The brass cover railings over the ladder openings where not added until the 1860's. They were found on most of the other ships of the line like the OHIO and NORTH CAROLINA. Thanks for the heads up though, lest I forget in my zeal to do my double checking.

[threebs]

Here are three photos of my gun port work so far. I have one side almost done (with regard to the gun port fixtures). I need to put the scuttle ports on the doors yet, repaint the sides, and add the lift ropes. A question about the lift ropes, where they enter the hull, on the real ships they had a lead pipe to run the ropes through, it is hammered over on the lips. how, or where, could I build or find small (1/16th inch) eyelets? Should I just forget that detail and simply drill the hole and run it through with out the "lining"?

[carr]

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[threebs]

As you can see, I have been slowly advancing on my gun ports. I have spent quite a bit of time on these so far. The hinges consist of 624 separate parts. Cutting each of the hinge pieces to just under 1/8 inch, and inserting a pin into each one was incredibly time consuming. I am debating if I will glue a scuttle onto each door. I am soooo ready to move on to other things. I only have 16 more gun port doors to rig the lift ropes to,then I will have to use a jig to drill all of the hull openings to thread the lift ropes through. Some small touch ups of paint, and I should be done with gun ports for now.
I have included a photo of my first and and only kit ship, guess which one? I finished this 20 years ago, and the Pennsylvania is my first scratch built and first since finishing the kit ship. I look at it now and cannot believe I thought I had a fantastic model back then. I know so much more now, and books and the internet have been indispensable in that.
Try to ignore the reflection of me taking the photo. In my defense, it is 100 degrees outside! I live just out side Tucson AZ by the way. Had 3-3/4 inches of rain last night. First rain since February.
Sorry for the poor quality of the photos, I think my 99 dollar camera is going kaput on me. Have my eye on a Canon T2i sometime in September. Photos will, be much, much better after that!

[threebs]

I have been getting up at 4:30 or 5 am so I can do some sawing, cutting, and sanding on parts that I can't do in the house (the wife objects, go figure!). It is only about 80 degrees in the garage where I do my messy work. By 6:30 the sun is shining right into/on the garage and it heats up pretty quick. I have to move to the card table in the front room when it's starts getting up around 90. It was only 99 today
I was looking at the second deck gratings, and it didn't look quite right just laying on the deck. I took out a beam and removed the grates. I made a riser to lift it off the deck, and surrounded them with canon balls. I made the chain wales, and have started to put them on. Sorry once again for the fuzzy photos, I just cannot seem to get the camera to focus close up. You can compare some of my first photos, and they are much better, at least most of them. I squared off 1/2 inch long nails to simulate the bolts holding the chain wale supports. I wonder if I should bother with the knees under the wales? They would be kind of small, about 1/4 inch by 1/2 an inch?
I took a small liberty and installed a "window" instead of a regular port door at the bow. (ala HMS Victory) We know Humpreys reviewed plans from the Santisima Trinidad and the Royal Sovereign when he started work on the Pennsylvania. Who's to say he didn't study the Victory, and in some small ways used certain ideas. Pennsylvania ended up looking nothing like the ships Humprey's studied, but he was probably influenced in some small unobtrusive ways?
What do you guys think so far? Once the chain wales are up and braced, I will permanently, install all of the deck furniture. I still need to make the ship's wheel, effort so far have not been satisfactory.

[carr]

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[threebs]

I live on the outskirts of Tucson, AZ. June to mid September the day time highs go above 100 3 to 4 times a week. It is "Monsoon" season now, when we get most of our 11 inches of annual rain fall. Night time lows are mid to high 70's.
Referring to Donald L. Canney's book "Sailing Warships of the US Navy", reveals that the Pennsylvania was pierced for 138 guns PLUS bridle ports. There are 144 "port" openings in the ship's hull. Some of these where intended as bridle ports, or so I gather from my reading. A quick look up of "Bridle ports" says they are essentially "air vents/ports". It seems logical that some of them would be at the bow to allow air flow across the below decks as the ship moved across the water. If needed, a gun could be mounted in the bridle ports or so I imagine.
I am going to install the knees below the channels.
I have been looking at models of the North Carolina and Ohio. The grates are modeled as being on a raised frame work. Even photos of other ships show the grates as raised off the deck. Before, I have the grates and their frames flush with the deck.
My knowledge of ship nomenclature is still a little weak, but I believe the "coaming" is the raised frame work I am talking about?
I have been looking at the ladders I have made, and they seem a little too "heavy". I am thinking of remaking them so they look a little more in scale. Presumably the originals were made with 2X12 elm or oak planks with side boards of the same size. this would cause the lip of each step to "stick out" about an inch or so. I have built enough house decks and stairways to be familiar with this effect. Photos of Victory, Constitution, and other ships shows this to be the case.

[threebs]

I have made some progress on the deck furniture installation. Some how I failed to notice that the ship center line is off about 1/16th of an inch. The port half is JUST a little bigger than the starboard half. I will have to be VERY careful next time. This is my first attempt, and I know I will make mistakes, but they are irksome none the less. Here are some photos of my efforts so far.

[threebs]

I have finished the skylight. I have "frosted" the glass so you cannot see through it. This was done to give the officers privacy. I have roughed out the lower masts and have included a photo of their approximate location. Their "rake" is not correct yet. I just wanted to see how they would look. I have been jumping around alot, as usual, to keep the work from becoming monotonous, and because some areas will take quite a bit of time and it gets to be a while between posts. I will finish the ladders soon, install them and their rope railings where practical and post again then. Otherwise it will be when the dead eyes are stropped and installed on the chain wales. I am still thinking about how to make the (what do you call the strap that bolts to the hull, shaped like a bone, and holds the chain in place? The "plate"?) I am wondering if card stock will work? I will need to make one, paint it, and see how it looks? I have seen on this forum where posters use a photo to show what they mean and are able to circle the point in question with a red circle? Is this done in photo shop? Any way, I would like to learn how to do it!

[Timmy C]

To add circles and text in your photos, you don't need something as fancy as Photoshop. MS Paint (which comes with your computer if you are using a Windows computer) is perfectly capable of doing so.

See the attached photos for instructions on which buttons to press for circles and text:

To add circles to your photos.

To add text in your photos.

MS Paint is called simply "Paint" and can be found under the Start menu, then All Programs, then Accessories. This may change a little bit depending on your exact version of Windows. If you have Windows 7, then the Paint program is visually much different from what I have shown.

Once your photos have been edited, save them as .PNG format in order to preserve the crispness of the text. Notice that I did not do so for my examples, resulting in rather difficult-to-read characters.