Vlad wrote:I ask because some pictures have a light patch at the bow (possibly in 5-H Haze Grey) while others don't.
I don't have the time to do the full research on this tonight, but I will say it is more likely the light patch is primer showing through chipped paint. Does the light patch look like it would follow heavy action from waves?
Wasp had her camo revised. The photos taken after her last yard period in Norfolk show it freshly painted. The patches added on the bow and stern were 5-H Haze Gray. She got this revised pattern somewhere between April and May 1942. Shot in April shows no 5-H patches, shot in May shows it in place.
That narrows it down to her arriving in the UK with the original pattern and leaving revised. Between those first two photos she went to the Med twice, I guess it's just speculation as to whether she had the revised scheme on either of those trips? There is a picture of HMS Eagle taken from USS Wasp on the second run but I haven't seen any the other way around.
Thanks Tracy! In the past I've found the IMW website a real pain to navigate and search but they seem to have improved it. I wasn't able to find more than you but I'll keep looking.
To backtrack a bit, is the darkest colour in the pattern (the waves on the hull) in 5-S or was it repainted to 5-N?
Vlad wrote:Thanks Tracy! In the past I've found the IMW website a real pain to navigate and search but they seem to have improved it. I wasn't able to find more than you but I'll keep looking.
To backtrack a bit, is the darkest colour in the pattern (the waves on the hull) in 5-S or was it repainted to 5-N?
Always a tough call, but based on the darker tone in photos, and the time period, 5-N would be my choice. The Atlantic fleet had switched over to 5-N by the time Wasp switched from original Measure 12 to Measure 12 Modified.
Vlad wrote:Thanks Tracy! In the past I've found the IMW website a real pain to navigate and search but they seem to have improved it. I wasn't able to find more than you but I'll keep looking.
To backtrack a bit, is the darkest colour in the pattern (the waves on the hull) in 5-S or was it repainted to 5-N?
Always a tough call, but based on the darker tone in photos, and the time period, 5-N would be my choice. The Atlantic fleet had switched over to 5-N by the time Wasp switched from original Measure 12 to Measure 12 Modified.
Thanks, this was my hunch and line of thought as well, was fishing for supporting arguments.
If you want some official documentation to back it up a bit, Measure 12 Modified was ordered for the Atlantic Fleet in Early November the preceding year.
Tracy White wrote:If you want some official documentation to back it up a bit, Measure 12 Modified was ordered for the Atlantic Fleet in Early November the preceding year.
Thank you! But I thought it best to check, since as it says on the camouflage main page on your website: "5-S continued in use in an inconsistant pattern through 1942."
Tracy White wrote:If you want some official documentation to back it up a bit, Measure 12 Modified was ordered for the Atlantic Fleet in Early November the preceding year.
Great find Tracy. If you note the instructions in paragraph 3b, regarding the dividing line along the hull, Ranger, Wasp, and Hornet, all moving from original Measure 12, seem to have followed those instructions very precisely (especially Ranger and Hornet.). If you look at Hornet's hull wavy pattern, you can see the upwards lobes of 5-N above the original line and the downward lobes of 5-O below the original line. In some areas, like the bow, sections of original line still remained. Later editions of ships moving into Measure 12 Modified seem to simply be using alternating 5-N and 5-O disruptive patches on the hull, and drifting from the original graded intent. I have often wondered if we aren't misidentifying these and perhaps they were really Measure 15 (think Alabama). Perhaps people painting these patterns were not repainting from an original Measure 12 ship, and thus, the instructions were a bit nebulous without the obvious reference to the original graded hull line.
I haven't found any documentation on Measure 15, but I believe it would have been limited to one ship for testing (The same was done with Measure 15 and 17 in that no more than one of each type is known to have worn those schemes).
I have been in touch with Maurice Beckner, a Juneau crewman kicked off just prior to its last mission for being overheard calling the First Lt. dumb when he stepped on a freshly painted deck, for several months. He has been of some significant help on a 1/350 model of Juneau which I hope to complete in the next week or so.
He recently told me he found the diary he kept on Juneau. Yes it was vs regs to do so. I asked him to send me a copy in the unlikely event it had any info on the camo on the ship. It did not. However it had some info I had never heard before about Wasp that may be of interest to you folks. And I quote----
"USS Wasp hit at 1440 by fish or 2 some seem. Our look outs never seen wakes of fish cause they were holding a field day--getting ready for Captains Inspection. Wasp sank later about 2130. One of our cans finished her off with a fish.
9/16 USS Wasp--no more--gone--but I reckon we will still have our inspection on schedule."
I have no idea how close Juneau was to Wasp and I seem to recall IJN fish did not leave wakes.
While later in the war, an IJN 21" torpedo was developed using oxygen (like the Long Lance, with no visible wake), virtually all Japanese sub torpedoes are electric with wakes in 1942.
IIRC, the torpedo tracks where seen, as the Hornet group was alerted to them. Hornet narrowly escaped being hit by the greatest torpedo shoot in the history of undersea warfare, North Carolina wasn't so lucky. Nor was a US destroyer (Smith?) who's name escapes me at the moment.
Martin
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne
This information may be posted in this thread somewhere but I couldn't find it. (technology challenged at times)
What was her armament at the time of her loss? Did she still have all the 1.1's or were some replaced with twin or quad 40 mm's? Were her .50's replaced with 20 mm mounts? I am going to be working on a build of her soon and I wanted to do her right at the time of loss. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Mike.
Just finished:
1/350 USS Columbia 1945
Current projects:
1/700 USS Catamount 1960
1/700 USS Helena 1942
1/350 USS San Francisco 1944
