R&R site the 4 Oerlikons additional to the first 11 Oerlikons in their plan on page 222-223, 2 either side of the aft deckhouse. Of these the one(s) you are talking about are more back against the after deckhouse so further forward than the location I think you are seeing "something" in A5900.
The only way to be certain would be to buy decent copies of A7491, A5462 or A5900 from the IWM. A7491 in particular should nail it.
Observations from the pictures: they give us two square pieces of plastic for 0.5" MG platforms. There should be four round platforms with safety nets. Cranes look wrong, as I think they should be more like those on Repulse.
Oerlikons on rear deck are wrong for 1939. there is something wrong with her bridge too. Roundels for a and y turrets would have been a nice touch.
Still a good kit.
Mikko Saarela
Measure twice, cut once. Measuring once could be quicker...
-"Moonlit nights were a favourite for air raids but, in August 1940, there was a period where there was no moon. Both Warspite and Malaya were therefore put into the floating dock for essential maintenance. Warspite had her peacetime light grey painted over with a camouflage pattern".
From Iain Ballantyne's Warspite. P 112-113.
Mikko Saarela
Measure twice, cut once. Measuring once could be quicker...
Ady wrote:
As far as I know R A Burts British battleships of wwI and 1919-1945 are the best references for British BB's and I was about to say they are not exactly cheap but on checking amazon you can get them now for around �30 each instead of the �45 I paid. Well worth getting though!
And, of course, we have Norman Friedman's book due out in the Autumn.
Good info about the timing of first camo for Warspite, this has been asked often with no definate answer. I got a kick from the moonless night in August quote, there is a moonless night every month, its called a new moon.
Dan Banks wrote:Good info about the timing of first camo for Warspite, this has been asked often with no definate answer. I got a kick from the moonless night in August quote, there is a moonless night every month, its called a new moon.
I know. I have been asking it myself. Maybe it was just a series of overcast nights just before Bardia raid? Long mast, 0.5 " guns, dg-gable...
Mikko Saarela
Measure twice, cut once. Measuring once could be quicker...
So, with Trumpeter's Valiant in 1/700 coming out soon, I want to ask a few things about that particular ship. I feel from skimming the thread that she has really been missed out in terms of discussion. I do want to build that kit, and I want it to look good but I must admit that I know very little about Valiant during WWII. I'm not after 100% accuracy if the kit turns out to have minor issues, but to be honest I don't really want the 1939 fit. I fear the answer to this will be "a lot", but what would it take to build the upcoming kit in a mid-war look? I ask because I would want to show her in camouflage, but here is where my lack of knowledge shows again. What camouflage schemes did Valiant wear and when? This would probably decide which period I choose to build her in, but I can't find anything readily available online. Thanks in advance.
Hey Vlad: There is a bunch of stuff on Valiant, Raven & Roberts "British Battleships of WWII, Alan Raven "Warship Perspectives, Royal Navy Camouflage 1939-1941, Vol 1, Vol 2, Vol 3, Les Brown "Shipcraft Queen Elizabeth Class Battleships". Basically 1939/1940, medium dark grey overall with white circle on a and d turret roofs, early to late 1942 with 507c and 507b pattern, 1943 intermediate scheme with 507a, 507c, ms3, b5, this last scheme was still evident in 1945. Not a whole lot of controversy on this one.
"d turret"?
RN ships' gun mountings and turrets were designated as "A", "B", "X" and "Y".(for four mounting ships - things were more complicated with other arrangements).
Dan Banks wrote:Hey Vlad: There is a bunch of stuff on Valiant, Raven & Roberts "British Battleships of WWII, Alan Raven "Warship Perspectives, Royal Navy Camouflage 1939-1941, Vol 1, Vol 2, Vol 3, Les Brown "Shipcraft Queen Elizabeth Class Battleships". Basically 1939/1940, medium dark grey overall with white circle on a and d turret roofs, early to late 1942 with 507c and 507b pattern, 1943 intermediate scheme with 507a, 507c, ms3, b5, this last scheme was still evident in 1945. Not a whole lot of controversy on this one.
Hello. Valiant's first 507c/507b camouflage was painted in 1940 or early 1941. It was modified before being damaged by Italian attack in Alexandria. New camouflage (same colours) was painted after repair and refit. And again in 1943 and 1944 in different colours.
Thanks guys, I've bought the Shipcraft book but the other two are either unavailable or extremely expensive (in the UK at least). I might do some more searching for those but in the meantime, from what you've said, I would have to lean towards the 1943 four colour scheme. Does the Shipcraft book have drawings of this pattern and if not is someone willing to share one?
And are you sure the darkest colour in this scheme would be AP507A? I have usually seen those schemes (e.g. on Renown, Malaya) using MS1, B5, MS3 and 507C.
Shipcraft books should NOT be used as authoritative references. They are reasonably good "menus", and can whet the appetites of those interested in their featured subjects, but should be regarded as no better than tertiary references, at best.
Vlad: I'd go with the four color scheme if you want it more "complicated". Yeah, stern most turret in British was Y. As far as ms1 or 507a, for darkest color, in 1/700 scale, I think you would want to lighten either one. I work mainly in 1/350 and don't use pure black or ms1 on anything, too dark.
I take your point Dan (RNfanDan), but as I said the primary sources are hard to find and/or horrifyingly expensive. In this case it's an amount of research I'm not really willing to invest in, and I have used Shipcraft in the past and been quite happy with their presentation.
Dan (Banks), the other reason for me is that I'm planning in the long term on building the whole class and she would look too similar to Warspite in the AP507B and C two-tone. I'll see how much information there is on this in the Shipcraft book, but I think I'm going to be doing a lot of chasing after 20mm tub positions for my 1943 build
Added list of available kits and gallery links to the first page.
If I've missed anything (kits or gallery links), please PM me and I'll add them.
Martin
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne
Does anyone know of any etch sets out there for the Queen Elizabeth's in WW2?
I've just got the WEM set and that's primarily for Warspite, which is Ok as I have the Trumpeter Warspite to build. However, I have both Valiant and Malaya (Valiant is nearly complete) and there's key parts of them missing from the etch in the kits and on the WEM set. I need cranes for Valiant and (I think) type 79 radar antennae for her mast tops. For Malaya I really need cranes.
That links to a set for HMS Renown (which I've already built) and is too OTT for trying to scavenge bits off for a different class of ships. I'm not sure there is a decent set yet for the Trumpeter QE's, it's about time someone did one.
I have found my GMM 1/700 British warship etch set and it has cranes for KGV. The kit cranes match the size pretty much spot on and from pics I've seen the cranes on QE and Valiant look pretty much the same as KGV's. Does anyone know if they were the same type of crane or if not, are they close enough that no one will know the difference in 1/700?
Sorry for the late reply again. 
Danny DON'T "waterline"...!
