Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

[Tracy White]

Bulkheads around the elevators were originally white, but at some point, probably in 1942, they started painting them to match the camouflage. So probably 5-N Navy Blue in most cases, but I'm not sure about Lexington at the time of her loss.

[Zad Fnark]

Thanks, Tracy.

Ed-

[lvsquarerigger]

I'm in the process of rebuilding the bridge structure on my Lex, viewtopic.php?f=59&t=40911&start=180, and I'm having trouble finding a definitive picture or plan for the supports under the 8" director platform. Does anyone have a better pic than this or a plan layout?

James

[lvsquarerigger]

try these
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/cv2.pdf or http://www.hnsa.org/doc/plans/cv3.pdf

I actually downloaded the cv2 plans from hnsa and took them down to the copy center and had them sized to be actual size for the model so I can compare or transfer directly without having to scale or convert. The plans are only side or overhead views and none from the fore and aft perspective which is what I'm looking for. The real question is are the supports girder style or the solid cutout style and I haven't been able to find something definitive either way. At the moment I'm leaning toward the solid cutout because the transverse brace between the two fore and aft supports are this style.

Thank you,

James

[lvsquarerigger]

I found the answer to my question and it was right in front of me. I finally got a copy of The Lexington Class Carriers and had posted a picture from that which I was using to build my Lex. Someone had sent me a scanned copy of it but it was dark and not clear. Once I had the book I could see many of the answers I was seeking in doing my bridge structure but missed what was there because my focus was on other aspects of it. I had made up my mind I was going to do the bracing in the solid support with holes to reduce weight when I glanced at this picture and did a big Duuuuuuh! There it was, right in front of me, plainly showing what I was looking for. Check the pics and you'll see what I mean.

James

[lvsquarerigger]

When I signed on this morning I had a note from Jon telling me he had found a picture on Flickr that someone had mentioned in a thread at Steel Navy. The link he sent didn't work so I just went to Flickr and searched Lexington CV2 and found what for me was a goldmine! Tons of pics, mostly from the San Diego Air and Space museum, and also mostly older pics but there were so many I had never seen before and some interesting angles too. Also a few of the hangar deck which I haven't seen anywhere else. I hope you have as much fun going through them as I did.

James

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=lexington+cv2&z=e

[John W.]

James - Thanks for that link. I couldn't help but notice some very interesting details on the LEX model from the Palm Springs Air and Space Museum. The model seems to be made of metal plate and rod, which is somewhat odd. However, looking closely at the several pictures (pages 3 & 4) I noted the following. One picture shows the bridge and flag plot from a forward port oblique view. The view shows what I believe the revised (post PH work in March '42) structure looked like at the time of LEX's loss. I also note that the splinter shields for the quad 1.1" in front of the island are not square, but have rounded corners - not far from the blueprints in Steve WIper's latest LEX book. The view of the quad 1.1" mounts behind the island (different picture) shows a pair on the old 8" mount platform - again with the rounded corners to the splinter shields. It also shows a single 1.1" mount in a tub on the flight deck. The photos and plans in Wiper's book show the reverse - two mounts on the flight deck, one on the old 8" platform. This is a most interesting model. Does anyone reading this thread live near by this museum?

[lvsquarerigger]

James - Thanks for that link. I couldn't help but notice some very interesting details on the LEX model from the Palm Springs Air and Space Museum. The model seems to be made of metal plate and rod, which is somewhat odd. However, looking closely at the several pictures (pages 3 & 4) I noted the following. One picture shows the bridge and flag plot from a forward port oblique view. The view shows what I believe the revised (post PH work in March '42) structure looked like at the time of LEX's loss. I also note that the splinter shields for the quad 1.1" in front of the island are not square, but have rounded corners - not far from the blueprints in Steve WIper's latest LEX book. The view of the quad 1.1" mounts behind the island (different picture) shows a pair on the old 8" mount platform - again with the rounded corners to the splinter shields. It also shows a single 1.1" mount in a tub on the flight deck. The photos and plans in Wiper's book show the reverse - two mounts on the flight deck, one on the old 8" platform. This is a most interesting model. Does anyone reading this thread live near by this museum?

Interesting in more than one way. It seems the modeler couldn't separate the different time periods and added details that we know are not true. He has the PH configuration to flag deck but has AA guns mounted on the roof when we know the rangefinder was moved there. He also has prifly on the forward funnel not the radar room which would have been there if the bridge structure was altered. Also the shielding on both double quad 1.1's are dimpled in the middle as if trying to make round tubs for each unit but there is a well recognized photo showing they are straight although it does show minimal rounding at the front corners. It would be interesting to know who did the model and what records he based it on. I think I'll google the museum and see if they have some way of being contacted.

James

[djohannsen]

Does anyone know what this is on top of turret #2 here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4822492708/

I would be ineterested to hear. Thanks, James, for the link to this collection.

Dave

[Jon C Ryckert]

I did notice one picture that got my attention. The flight deck decking appears to run longitudinal between the arrestor wires on the after part of the flight deck. The pic I refer to is first page, seventh row down, second pic from left. Am I seeing things?

[Tracy White]

I did notice one picture that got my attention. The flight deck decking appears to run longitudinal between the arrestor wires on the after part of the flight deck. The pic I refer to is first page, seventh row down, second pic from left. Am I seeing things?

This one?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4822492226/

You can see it in other photos as well:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4821875011/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4822490990/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4822491128/

There was a point of time when the fiddle bridge arresting gear was installed early on when the decking ran fore and aft in that area:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4821873839/
I'm not sure when it was changed, but it shows up in other photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4821873597/

Does anyone know what this is on top of turret #2 here:

It's an early AA gun fire director. I don't happen to know the Mk number.

[Dick J]

To the best of my knowledge, the deck planks ran side-to-side in the landing area. When the ships first commissioned, there were numerous longitudinal wires. The aircraft axles had hooks underneath, and it was hoped that the hooks would engage the longitudinal wires preventing the planes from swerving over the side on landing. The wires caused more accidents than they prevented, and were soon removed. What I believe you are seeing in these photos is the longitudinal wires. If you look closely at this photo that Tracy linked http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4821873839/ you can still see some of the plank lines going side-to-side.

[lvsquarerigger]

James - Thanks for that link. I couldn't help but notice some very interesting details on the LEX model from the Palm Springs Air and Space Museum. The model seems to be made of metal plate and rod, which is somewhat odd. However, looking closely at the several pictures (pages 3 & 4) I noted the following. One picture shows the bridge and flag plot from a forward port oblique view. The view shows what I believe the revised (post PH work in March '42) structure looked like at the time of LEX's loss. I also note that the splinter shields for the quad 1.1" in front of the island are not square, but have rounded corners - not far from the blueprints in Steve WIper's latest LEX book. The view of the quad 1.1" mounts behind the island (different picture) shows a pair on the old 8" mount platform - again with the rounded corners to the splinter shields. It also shows a single 1.1" mount in a tub on the flight deck. The photos and plans in Wiper's book show the reverse - two mounts on the flight deck, one on the old 8" platform. This is a most interesting model. Does anyone reading this thread live near by this museum?

I googled the museum and found their website. It is a completely volunteer run place. I called the director and he returned my call last evening after he got home from his real job. He said he thinks the modeler has passed on but gave me his private e-mail to send my questions to and he will forward them to the archivist. No promise of results but at least it is a chance for some answers. I'll post whatever comes of it here.

James

[DennisJP]

Also if you look at the blue prints closely in the new book on Lexington cv-2 the setting of the 28mms side by side is a proposal but there is a final drawing on the plan of the guns being mounted one after the other instead of side by side. Also you can see clearly in the picture of the #2 8" gun position in a picture of the flight deck you can see clearly the shielding for the 2 28mms there are straight in a rectangle not two different shield's separating the guns.

[lvsquarerigger]

Here's a copy of the e-mail I sent to the museum director:

Hi Fred,

First let me thank you for your time and efforts.

A brief history of the Lex so you can understand the questions. The Lex was the first real carrier the US had. The Langley was officially the first but was mainly an experimental platform and never saw action. The Lex was refitted in '36 to widen the front of the flight deck as operations showed this was necessary. She went through a major refit again in '41 where more AA guns were added and a cxam radar was installed on the funnel. At this time prifly, the two deck structure on the front of the funnel was removed and a radar room was put in it's place. The final changes came in April '42 when she was rushed through changes at Pearl and sent back out as quickly as possible to be sunk a few weeks later at the Battle of the Coral Sea.

There is plenty of documentation for all of this except the refit at Pearl. The proposed changes are available but the only pics of what was done are the removal of the 8" guns. The installation of the quad 1.1's, the extension of the flag bridge, the addition of another radar, and the changing of AA guns are all misfiled or lost. The only pics are from the battle of the Coral Sea and these details are either shrouded in smoke or the pic is so grainy details aren't clear. There has been a consensus of what was done but no evidence to speak of until just recently.

Just a few months ago someone working at NARA, filing photos, found a picture of a barge at Pearl, but in the background was the Lexington during her refit. The flag bridge was partially extended, the radar was installed, and at last we had definitive proof of what had been done to some extent. With all that said here are my questions.

Your modeler seems to have mixed times and added fantasy to his work. It is an amazing work to be sure but I, and many on the Lex forum, wondered where he got his information. The splinter shields for the 1.1's on the raised level in front of the bridge seem to be done to make circular tubs as much as possible when battle pics show them to be straight. This is the first pic I'll attach.

Then there is the question of prifly/radar. I'll attatch two pics showing both versions, the older one first and the '41 refit version after.

Then the question of why there are AA guns on top of flagplot when this is where the 8" director that had been in front of flagplot was moved to the roof. The next pic is a cropping from the NARA photo showing Lex undergoing her changes. The new radar and the enclosing of the 8" director to make a radar room are clearly visible. Also in this pic the radar is very clear and it is the square version of the MK4 not the rectangular one on your model.

I sent the appropiate pics to illustrate the questions and now await a reply.

James

[pbudzik]

Dennis - What is the "new book" on CV-2

Paul

[lvsquarerigger]

I've been working on the bridge structure and trying to get the relationship of the different mast supports to fit what was actually in place and not the mis-sized ones in the Trumpeter kit and it's really driving me nuts!!!! I can get the starboard strut pretty much where it should be but it's not quite right in how it fits on the flag level and how much shows out of the cabin wall but it's close. The port side is a whole other matter. Perhaps it's the extra deck it penetrates, I'm not sure. This morning while comparing the drawings I have to the kit parts,I found a discrepancy I hadn't noted before. On the plans there is a difference in the width of the nav level cabin and the flag level cabin but not in the kit parts. The plans show the nav level a straight .5 inches and the flag level .35 inches! The kit parts are both the same, namely .5! This means making the flag cabin narrower but then there is the question of what was done at Pearl. I presume the extension of the cabin forward is the same width as what was already there but was it? The new picture found of the Lex in the background of a barge at Pearl during her refit seems to show the struts out of the cabin walls more clearly than any other photo I've seen which would support the narrower cabin at flag level. I don't want to but it seems the cabin has to be rebuilt. Does anyone have any definitive information or a picture that really shows this aspect?

James

[djohannsen]

Dennis - What is the "new book" on CV-2

Paul

I would also love to know to what book you are referring. I am keen to grab any references to inter-war cariers that I can.


Dave

[lvsquarerigger]

I've been working on the bridge structure and trying to get the relationship of the different mast supports to fit what was actually in place and not the mis-sized ones in the Trumpeter kit and it's really driving me nuts!!!! I can get the starboard strut pretty much where it should be but it's not quite right in how it fits on the flag level and how much shows out of the cabin wall but it's close. The port side is a whole other matter. Perhaps it's the extra deck it penetrates, I'm not sure. This morning while comparing the drawings I have to the kit parts,I found a discrepancy I hadn't noted before. On the plans there is a difference in the width of the nav level cabin and the flag level cabin but not in the kit parts. The plans show the nav level a straight .5 inches and the flag level .35 inches! The kit parts are both the same, namely .5! This means making the flag cabin narrower but then there is the question of what was done at Pearl. I presume the extension of the cabin forward is the same width as what was already there but was it? The new picture found of the Lex in the background of a barge at Pearl during her refit seems to show the struts out of the cabin walls more clearly than any other photo I've seen which would support the narrower cabin at flag level. I don't want to but it seems the cabin has to be rebuilt. Does anyone have any definitive information or a picture that really shows this aspect?

James

I went back to the plans I have and found my answers. One pic shows the back of the flag level cabin extending beyond the nav level cabin and the other shows the same along with the narrower cabin and how it relates to the one below it. In the overhead view look at the dotted line showing the nav level cabin. This caused me to deconstruct that level I already had built, (flag level) hoping to save the railings so I wouldn't have to do all that little detail stuff again but alas it was not to be. With the new deck in hand it doesn't match what I had existing so that whole level is being done over again. If you want more details go to my build log. The plans I have are from midway in Lex's life so they don't show the later changes made but they do give a sound look at the bones that would have been modified.

James

[DennisJP]

Dennis - What is the "new book" on CV-2

Paul

Warship Pictorial #33 Lexington CV-2 (Only)

It has a copy of a section of the blueprint they used for the April 42 Refit. On the blueprint is a drawing of the proposed positioning of the 28mm's and the actual positioning. The way it reads and looks the shipyard was going to change the 28mms to the side by side position when she got back from Coral Sea but the "in a Row" position was temporary. With her battle damage though this would have changed and I'm sure she probably would have had a refit some what like Saratoga.