Calling all Benson-class & Gleaves-class DD fans

[Tony D]

Wow......Thanks for all of the great information on Farenholt. It sure gives me a great deal to consider. I really had no idea there was so much variance in the various ships of her class.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond.

Much appreciated.

Tony

[maxim]

I am currently searching for the camouflage patterns of Gwin, Meredith, Grayson and Monssen in April 1942. All probably had Measure 12 mod patterns, at least I have found photos of all of them with this pattern:

Gwin:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/433.htm

Meredith:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 543406.jpg
http://www.destroyerhistory.org/benson- ... th_02.html
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/434.htm

Grayson
http://www.destroyerhistory.org/benson- ... on_03.html
http://www.destroyerhistory.org/benson- ... on_04.html
http://www.destroyerhistory.org/benson- ... index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Uss_g ... 543503.jpg

Monssen
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/436.htm

The pattern of Gwin, Grayson and Monssen appear to be very similar. Was there something like a standard pattern?

[Dick J]

The pattern of Gwin, Grayson and Monssen appear to be very similar. Was there something like a standard pattern?

Not exactly. The patterns were not standardized in the way that later MS-31/32/33 patterns were. They were not designed by a central office. The yards and apparently the division commanders had some influence in the designs and so they tended to copy what they had previously done. Check the Gleaves on Navsource, and you will see she is in the same approximate "pattern" as Gwin, Grayson, and Monssen.

[Rick E Davis]

Maxim,

If you can catalog ALL the Ms 12(Mod) "patterns" applied to destroyers (all USN ships?) ... that would be amazing. I tried to see if there was a correlation between the various pattern "styles" and the dates/time period for their use and I couldn't. There seemed to be a certain "style" usage by a given yard (like most destroyers repainted by Boston Navy Yard looked similar), but builders producing Repeat BENSON-GLEAVES class units in early-mid 1942 came up with different schemes and the USN was experimenting all the time from late 1941 until the fall of 1942 on different camo schemes/patterns. Some schemes/patterns seemed to have British influences others were just plain "artistic" ... all under the label of Ms 12(Mod). The biggest headache is that there are not enough photos available of EVERY destroyer to cover every paint "job" to catalog what pattern of Ms 12(Mod) they wore throughout their career. The Pacific command was not too keen on Ms 12 and liked solid patterns like Ms 21, but didn't require repainting of ships that arrived from the Atlantic until the Fall of 1942.

I came across this memo in PLUNKETT's BuShips file that I gave to Tracy White to post on his website ...

http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... flage.html ...

The letter discusses an evaluation of two different "patterns" on LUDLOW and PLUNKETT. Finding photos of PLUNKETT with her scheme in June 1942 is fairly easy (but she did get repainted in July 1942 ... seen in August 1942 photos ... same pattern used?), but I have yet to find a definite photo of LUDLOW's scheme which used a "Light Green" on the superstructure ... "Jigsaw" patterns were more common in the first couple of months in 1942, but whether that was still the "experimental" pattern LUDLOW had in June 1942 ... who knows?

[raggs]

Question for Rick Davis.

I'm building the Skywave's 1/700 Caldwell into the Fraizer (DD607). The model comes with the
02 bridge level with the "pot belly" configuration. On page 26 of this thread there is a pic of the Gansevoort (DD608) with the flat 02 level bridge.
Since DD 605 thru 611 are Beth SF units can I be safe in assuming that the Fraizer, or all SF units, had the flat faced 02 level.
She was laid down after the Gansevoort but launched before.

Navsource doesnt give any difinitive pics and I went thru all 35 pages of this thread, the
Gansevoort was the only pic I could find from this batch (605-611) confirming this configuration.

Thanks,

Paul

[raggs]

Shoot, sorry, ment this to go under the Benson/Gleaves DD CASF.

Admin, can you move it.

Rookie mistake.

[ar]

I noted the document that you posted, re Plunkett and Lansdale having mention of Sea Blue being used. In this vein, in some of the documents that I used to have, but no longer, there is mention several times of the use of Sea Blue on cruisers and destroyers in March 1942. The type being referred to is Measure 12R. This comes from official observations made of ships camouflage off the coast of Maine.

Maxim,

If you can catalog ALL the Ms 12(Mod) "patterns" applied to destroyers (all USN ships?) ... that would be amazing. I tried to see if there was a correlation between the various pattern "styles" and the dates/time period for their use and I couldn't. There seemed to be a certain "style" usage by a given yard (like most destroyers repainted by Boston Navy Yard looked similar), but builders producing Repeat BENSON-GLEAVES class units in early-mid 1942 came up with different schemes and the USN was experimenting all the time from late 1941 until the fall of 1942 on different camo schemes/patterns. Some schemes/patterns seemed to have British influences others were just plain "artistic" ... all under the label of Ms 12(Mod). The biggest headache is that there are not enough photos available of EVERY destroyer to cover every paint "job" to catalog what pattern of Ms 12(Mod) they wore throughout their career. The Pacific command was not too keen on Ms 12 and liked solid patterns like Ms 21, but didn't require repainting of ships that arrived from the Atlantic until the Fall of 1942.

I came across this memo in PLUNKETT's BuShips file that I gave to Tracy White to post on his website ...

http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... flage.html ...

The letter discusses an evaluation of two different "patterns" on LUDLOW and PLUNKETT. Finding photos of PLUNKETT with her scheme in June 1942 is fairly easy (but she did get repainted in July 1942 ... seen in August 1942 photos ... same pattern used?), but I have yet to find a definite photo of LUDLOW's scheme which used a "Light Green" on the superstructure ... "Jigsaw" patterns were more common in the first couple of months in 1942, but whether that was still the "experimental" pattern LUDLOW had in June 1942 ... who knows?

[Rick E Davis]

Paul,

Yes FRAZIER (DD-607) and all of the Repeat-BENSONS (from DD-459 onwards ... all Bethlehem-built at various yards) and most Repeat-GLEAVES (except for a few early Federal-built units not modified by the USN) had the squared off lower bridge deckhouse. What timeframe are you modeling FRAZIER? She had at least three different configurations during the war. FRAZIER didn't receive the Anti-Kamikaze Mod based on post-war mothball photos.

1) August 1942 - about August 1943 ... two twin 40-mm mounts and four 20-mm guns

2) September 1943 - about August 1944 ... two twin 40-mm mounts and seven 20-mm guns with a non-standard elevated platform forward of the bridge

3) September 1944 - end of the war ... two twin 40-mm mounts and seven 20-mm guns with a standard elevated platform forward of the bridge

[raggs]

Thanks Rick, I'll be building the Frazier in her late '44 config.

[Ensign Jay]

Hi all , sorry to ask if this is in this topic but it's 35 pages to search through , what photo etch is the best one for the 1945 USS Benson (Dragon 1/350 smart kit ) for a build almost straight out of the box ?

cheers Jay

[Landlocked]

Hi just finished a Dragon 1/700 Laffey DD-459 with GMM US Destroyer/ Cruiser PE. It's a fantastic kit, can't speak too highly of it.



The best bit is - there's another one (full hull) in the box! I can only imagine how good the 1/350 version must be.
The sprue arrangement gives you plenty of leftovers - 20mm and twin 40mm, 1.1 quad, quad and five-tube torpedo launchers, different yards and mast tops, as i said - fantastic kit.

LL

[Steve]

Any indication if Dragon has a 700 scale 1940 Benson in their plans or did I miss something?

[Rick E Davis]

No idea if DML will, but so far they have followed-up "most" 1/350 scale kits with 1/700 scale "cousins".

When they do, if they do, has not been announced.

[Angeliccypher]

Living near Washington DC gives me access to several really nice archives. Such as the US Naval Archives at the Naval Academy, and the National Archives. That being said, i happen to have scans of the four main rolls that are the original deck plans for the USS Endicott (DD495). The files are some what larger, but I would be more than happy to post them if anyone would be interested or would benefit from them.

For quick reference sake, she was commissioned in 43, and is one of the last twenty Gleaves class, and has the squared bridge. She launched with the two twin 40mm on her aft gun deck.

If the are too large to post I can always try to email them.

[AndrexP]

"...I would be more than happy to post them if anyone would be interested or would benefit from them."

Please do post them! I would love to see them.

Thanks,

[Angeliccypher]

Well I knew the files were large as the actual documents were about 4'-5'x2', and the scans were high resolution to the paint were you can zoom in and actually read everything on them. But they appear to be too big not only to upload to the forum, but to email by normal means.

If you have an FTP site I could do that. The files range from 35MB to 43MB. There are four files in total.

Unless one of the moderators has anther way we can get these to the community?

[Timmy C]

Not at 35MB, unless you upload them to a file-sharing site.
If you can get them down to ~5MB (either shrinking the photos or saving them at lower quality, or both), you can upload them onto an image hosting site like www.imgur.com and post the link to them here.

[Angeliccypher]

Well if you want them I can do it one of two ways I guess. I can shrink them as Timmy said and loose the quality, or give me a link toan FTP site and I will upload them.

[Angeliccypher]

These are the compressed files. Nowhere near as legible but hopefully helpful non the less.

[Rick E Davis]

Angelic,

Another option is to use an image hosting website like Photobucket.com (and there are other websites besides them you can use). I have a Photobucket "free" account I use. It limits the size of stored images, but what I have done is blow-up sections of drawings and crop them to a size that can be up loaded and provides useful information. I post the "IMG" label (shown below each image) for my saved images into messages, it really is pretty simple once I figured it out. The direct image upload on this website by its nature allows only a very limited size file as you have found out.

The most unique feature of ENDICOTT (DD-495) is that she was one of the 20 Square-bridge GLEAVES units as you say. So blow-ups of the bridge likely would be of most interest to fellow modelers.