The Ship Model Forum

UPDATE 38

Greetings everybody!

This post is less of an update and more of a plea for help. The only real progress I made was that I removed the draft numbers from the rudder. The only other thing I have done is try to remove the spots where the interior black bled onto the flat black. I first tried to use the end of a chopstick to gently scrape it off. I wasn�t happy with this, so I tried to wet sand it with 1000 grain sand paper. This seemed better, but I am not happy with the results.
You can see on the sail planes that this removed the interior black, but also lightened the flat black.





The same thing can be seen in the area at the aft end of the anti-skid surface.



You can also see where I tried to sand a scratch (that who knows where came from) with the same lightening effect.



I was pretty happy with the paint job, except for the little flaws, but in the process of trying to fix them I think I made them worse. I have some other issues now too. There are shiny spots on the surface that I have no idea as to what they are or how they got there.



These look like insect slime of some sort?



There are also some minor surfaces that came from me stupidly putting the model on the hard plastic stand without anything soft between it and the model. Oops!





These don�t look like scratches, but perhaps they are.



And I have no idea what that �Stain�(that I just noticed) is on the lower aft end (lower left), nor where it came from.



This is where the plea for help comes in. How in the heck do I fix it without sanding it again, masking it off, and giving it another coat, which I really don�t want to do, unless it is the only way. I was thinking that I could spray the paint into a jar and brush it on to cover the spots, but I have no idea if I could blend it, since I have no experience with this problem. It could make it worse. I just thought about spraying without doing a complete masking job, like maybe taping newspaper around an area and spot spraying that area. Blending might still be an issue, but it seems like it might blend better than if I brushed it on. Perhaps a combination of brushing and spraying would be best? I have no idea. What are your thoughts guys?

You could mask larger than the area to repair, and feather the spray edges out to the masking - heavier in the center, lighter on the edge. If you spray a full coat, you may end up with the edge of the tape being noticeable.

I like the model a lot, and have been watching with a lot of interest. You've done a good job on the build. In fact, it's one of the reasons I joined this forum. There is a reason for my user name, and it's not because I have a casual interest in SSNs. Greenling is the first of five SSNs on which I qualified, and the second of six on which I went to sea. I reported to her in the yards, and went to sea on another boat prior to getting out of the yards. The yard period was in 77-78, and changed the boat quite a bit from the time period you are modeling. That was when she got the towed array housing among other things.

UPDATE 39

Thanks for the tip SSNJim. I think to avoid that potential I will just mask the whole thing and then apply a light coat to cover up my goofs. That�s really cool that you were on Greenling and four other SSNs. That must have been a heck of an experience. What other SSNs were you on?

Even though I don�t plan on doing the touch-up painting until I get the fairings, and put them on, I decided to go ahead and mask it in preparation for painting the underside.









A couple of days ago I went to the School of Architecture Model Shop and found a nice scrap of wood (I think it is black walnut) to use for making the base.







Just for the heck of it, I thought I would make it in AutoCad, showing the steps I will use to make the real base. The block of wood is 9.65� x 8.75� x 1.75�.



The first thing I will do is cut it in half�



�And glue the two pieces together.



When the glue dries, I will drill a 3� diameter hole through the middle of it.



I only want the base to be 1.25� tall, so I will cut it to make 2 bases, one to be used on the current model, the other to be used on the detailed model when I get to build it.





I will then cut the faces at 70 degrees angles, sand it, paint it with MinWax Polycrylic, and then apply 1/16� thick felt on the top to protect the hull from scratches. (I learned my lesson.)



Next, I will go to our local trophy shop and get plaques made for the front and rear faces of the current model. I will make the plaques for the detailed model when I finally get to make the model.









The plaques as currently designed are tentative and subject to change, but if I do change them, it won�t be by much. I should have time to start on the base tomorrow. After that I will switch to Batfish until the fairings arrive.

CHEERS!!!

Hi guys,

I haven�t made any progress on the model or the base, so I don�t have anything to update, but I do have some good news for the future of the detailed model. Pavel, of Admiralty Models contact me about doing some CAD work for him, so I am going to do it in exchange for him printing my parts. Good deal!!!

My first project is a Goalkeeper CIWS. If you are interested, I am keeping a build log at:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=152674

CHEERS!!!

UPDATE 40

Hi guys!

I completed the Goalkeeper (click on image below to see it rotate), and it was a lot of fun.



I sent the STL file to Pavel this morning and he has told me that he has printed the parts I sent, and that the �mast� came out good. I didn�t get clarification, but I think he must be talking about the snorkel inductor, because that is the only mast like object I sent him. If that is the case, I�m in luck, because that is about as small as it gets, and if his printer can print it good, the rest of the model should be a snap. Other parts printed so far include the nose section of the hull and the sail. He also printed the RAM launcher (on him because he is interested in it too) and said that he would ship my parts tomorrow. COOL!!!

As for my parts being printed by 3Dimensions, the last word I had, which was last Tuesday, was that their computer had crashed. They said that they would let me know when the parts were printed so I am assuming the fact that I haven�t heard anything means that they haven�t printed yet. Not so cool!!!

Anyway, I was contemplating what to do next, and was looking at the Woodlands Scenics Dry Transfer Decals that I picked up the other day. I ordered them for the ship numbers, but the sheet also has decals that could be used for the draft numbers.



Since they are rub-ons and don�t have a border, is it still best to wait until after the Future has dried to apply them, or can you apply them after the last coat of paint, before the Future? And for the little numbers, how difficult is it to apply them straight? It seems to me that this is the tricky part, because unlike slide-ons, when they are on, they are on.

CHEERS!!!

Rdutnell wrote:UPDATE 39
What other SSNs were you on?

Sorry for the delay in answering. I was permanently assigned to Greenling (614), Birmingham (695) and Finback (670), and rode Batfish (681), Tinosa (606) and Sunfish (649). I qualified on all but Batfish.

Hi Russ,

I do not write much here to your awesome build, but I'm always reading any news and I'm stunning.
Ok, I have really only a low knowledge about subs in general and they are out of my area of interest ... but looking over the edge of the plate (of own interest) in modelling I do mostly and the pure craftsmanship you make here is total great!

Hey Jim, that is really cool and I didn�t even realize that there was a Batfish SSN. I�m doing the old Greenling currently. Perhaps I will have to do the new one some time?

Good to hear from you Christian! As always, you are too kind! Thanks!

Good news on my end. The fairings, and other parts I am having printed are ready and will ship tomorrow, or Tuesday. I�ll let you know when they arrive.

UPDATE 41

YEEEEAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

My parts came today. Early, and I had stuff I had to get done so I couldn�t open it until late in the day. When I finally got to open it, I was delighted. I had to take them to my parent�s and show the whole family at dinner.

I mean, the parts came out great, so I finally have confirmation that the detailing that I have been doing can be printed.
YEEEAAAAHHHHH!!!!!

The fairings, the last parts I need to complete my first 3D printed model were rejected by Shapeways, but as you can see Click2Detail printed them quite nicely. Note how tiny they are in comparison to the penny. Also note that they sent me 2 GNATS Radar Jammer Fairings for some reason. Anybody need a 1/144 GNATS fairing?

I�m sure that you can guess what I will be doing this weekend. In fact, tomorrow (um, later today) they will get a couple of coats of paint and maybe even find their homes on the ship�s deck.





I am also really thrilled with the way the other parts I had printed came out too. You may recall that, in addition to the fairings, I had them print the detailed sail, sail plane, snorkel inductor, periscopes and antenna. As you can see, the detailing on the sail came out great, and it is everything that I had hoped it would be.



















And the periscopes, snorkel inductor and antenna just blow me away. They are soooooo tiny, and still they are nicely detailed. I was almost afraid to get them out of the cardboard backed zip-lock because they look so fragile, but I was able to handle them and stick them in some Blue Stik to take pictures without any problem. Painting them and getting them in the sail might be another matter. We shall see.













In case you didn�t know, I AM STOKED!!!
CHEERS!!!

UPDATE 42

Yeeeeaaaaahhhhhh!!!!

Things couldn�t be going any better guys. The parts are simply excellent. I decided to build the sail assembly before painting it, and although the various �masts� wouldn�t slide into their respective holes, I could get them in a little bit, so I decided to cut them off. Perhaps if I had used micro-files to file both the insides of the holes and the surfaces of the masts, I could have made them fit, but that sounded too much like work, with no guarantee of success, and an increased probability of breaking one (not that that would be critical, this is just a test piece). Cutting them off worked great. I knew where to cut them because you can see their holes through the clear plastic. I used a razor saw to cut the thicker ones, just in case, and nail clippers for the thinner ones. The sail planes were attached using a piece of a paper clip and are moveable.









After putting it together, I gave it one coat of black Rust-Oleum Flat Protective Enamel, opting to skip the primer. The results were very satisfying, to say the least.

























I also painted the fairings that I am putting on the first generation model.





When they were dry, I put them on the ship, concluding the assembly, with the exception of the screw and dunce cap that I will put on at the end.















With the hull completely assembled, I prepared for the final painting round to touch up the mars I have accidentally put on the surface. I will be spraying the oxide red on at first light, but decided to go ahead and mask the anti-skid, so that I wouldn�t have to do it later. I began by printing the templates I used earlier and taping them to the metal bar I have been using as a cutting board, with a strip of Edge Lock tape between them. Below, you can see the aft end. Note the rectangle for the cutout of the radar fairing.



I then cut around the perimeter, and discarded all but the mask I needed. The forward end is shown below. Note the cutout for the GNATS Radar Jammer Fairing.



I then carefully laid these pieces in position and then filled in the remaining area with the same Edge Lock tape.



At this point I turned what was a submarine into something that looks more like the fuselage of a jet airplane as I masked off the top in preparation for the spraying I will soon be doing. To avoid the masking tape peeling off the Lock Edge tape I just applied I used paper with masking tape only around the edges. I then went ahead and masked over the entire thing for fear that the paper could bleed through if painted. This step probably wasn�t necessary but at this point it�s better safe than sorry.



Also, I would really like to finish painting it today, but I think for safety sake, I better wait at least 24 hours before I mask over it.

Man this is fun!

CHEERS!!!

UPDATE 43

Good Evening Everyone!

So, let me update you on my progress. First I put another coat and a half (I ran out of paint) on the bottom.













After waiting a day, I masked the bottom and sprayed the top again. Unfortunately, the black bled under the masking tape in a couple of spots, especially at one spot behind the starboard side diving plane.





















The touch up painting went well and the model looks better.




At this point I switched my attention to the decals. To do this, I first laid down a strip of the Edge-Lock masking tape onto a piece of glass. I then taped a piece of scotch tape, sticky side up onto the glass, and laid the numbers on it upside down. In the image below you can see one completed and removed from the glass (top) and the other one completed and ready for removal.



I then taped the numbers into position on the sail and using a PDA stylus I rubbed the numbers to attach them to the sail�



�And removed the scotch tape.



I then repeated the process on the other side.









Unfortunately, the �1� on the starboard side didn�t completely adhere to the surface and is slice off on the bottom. I haven�t decided at this point whether to live with it or remove it and redo it. I will probably end up doing the latter.

With the success I had with the sail numbers, I decided to try to use this same method to apply the draft numbers. I started by printing the rudder and bow section to scale and drawing a vertical line and lines at the base of the numbers. These drawings were then taped to the underside of my glass sheet (stolen from a picture frame� I didn�t need that picture anyway ).



From here I followed roughly the same procedure as before, attaching the numbers upside down to the sticky side of the scotch tape�


�And taping it into position.


I was rockin� and rollin� at this point, until I removed the tape. Parts of several numbers did like the �1� and didn�t stick. The profanity monster, who isn�t much into taking pictures, showed up around this time, but I was able to remove them using an Exacto knife with minimal impact. I was thinking at this point that I would just use wet transfer decals, which I would apply after spraying Future, so I decided to put the bow numbers on, which turned out to be a mistake. Using the plans I eyeballed where the numbers were supposed to go and attached them in the same manner as I did the sail numbers.

Well, being perhaps a wee bit stubborn, I decided to try the draft numbers on the rudder again, using a different method. This time I taped the template to the rudder and applied the numbers individually directly to the rudder. This worked a lot better after I learned how to do it, but at first I had to redo a couple of numbers. After the rudder I did the bow, and by this time it went really smooth. Unfortunately, it became obvious that although I had the bow numbers in the correct longitudinal position, I had put them on to low (like below the waterline). I had about decided that I could live with it when I did a Google Search on �Removing Dry Transfer Decals� that said that scotch tape would take them right off. Well, rather than testing it on the test pieces I had made when testing my PDA stylus burnishing tool, I hastily went straight to the model. And it worked� partially. It friggin� took off about 1/3 of them. Needless to say I wasn�t a happy camper at this point as I was forced to remove it. Well if I had to remove them, I might as well put them in the right spot so I removed the numbers on the other side too, and redid them. The problem, as you will see in some of the images below, is that it left large smudge spots in the paint job. The port side isn�t as bad because I figured if the tape took off part of the numbers, perhaps repetitive application and removal would remove all of it. It worked fairly well, but I still had to scrape some, though not nearly as much.

Being now completed with the model, and ready for the Future, I glued the screw in place so that it rotates on the dunce cap shaft, and took pictures. Enjoy!



In this photo you can clearly see the �smudge�. Do you guys know of any easy way to fix this? Should I mask around it and spot spray it?









In this image you can just see the smudge at the lower right of the numbers on the bow.







On the plans of Permit that I have, it shows the ship name on the stern sides, and in a picture I have of Greenling, in what appears to be the same configuration as mine (no sonar array tube) the name appears to be present.



Because of this, I decided that I was going to put the name on my model. The problem is that I don�t have letters, just numbers, and neither does my local hobby store, so they ordered them for me, but they won�t be here until Monday. This being the first time that I have used rub on decals on a model, I read info on the internet to learn more about it. In doing so, I read that unlike wet decals, it is better to put dry ones on before the clear coat. I was advised by Pirate on the SubCommittee forum that it is best to �put at least one clear coat on before the rub down type,� so I may go ahead and spray a coat or two of Future on it in the next day or two. I like this idea because it means less handling of the naked paint job.

More good news is that even though I was kicked out of the wood shop because I am not in the School of Architecture any more, I contacted an old carpenter friend and he told me that he now has a complete shop and would either make my base, or help me do it. COOOL!!!
The bad news is that I was making this model for a friend, but now I don�t know if I will be able to part with it.

CHEERS!!!

UPDATE 44

Hi Everybody!

It has been over a month since I have posted an update on Greenling, so I thought I would post one. After applying the number decals, but before I received the letters, I followed some advice I was provided and sprayed the model with Future.



















Unfortunately, Tom Dougherty pointed out to me that I had put the sail numbers in the wrong place. In later years there were no markings on the ship and the sail numbers were simply hung on the sail while in port. I fretted about it but wasn�t sure what to do about it so I went ahead and put the ship name on.

The port side came out pretty good.




The Starboard side didn�t come out quite so good. The �ING� is all out of alignment.



The bad thing was that to fix it, I needed more G�s than I had, so I had to order another set of decals for one friggin� G.
Before the new letters arrived, I couldn�t stand it any longer and decided I had to move the sail numbers.
I did the starboard side first�



�Then the port side.



I must admit that at this point I was somewhat freaking out because I had no idea if I could hide the old numbers or not.
Also, at about this time, my plans to make the base in the Architecture Model Shop got derailed when I was told by the new manager that I couldn�t use it any more since I was no longer enrolled in Landscape Architecture classes. Fortunately, I hooked up with a buddy who is really gifted at wood working and he is making it for me. I hear that it has been completed, but I haven�t seen it yet. Here is a picture he sent to me a couple of weeks ago.



The replacement letters arrived on 7/5 so I redid the botched name.





I then sprayed the ship with 2 coats of Future. The old numbers were still visible, more so on the starboard side.
Starboard side.



Port side.



A couple of more coats of Future and you could still see them.

Starboard side.



Port side.



I also put the Future on too heavy and had a run on the port side. Things weren�t going well!
Still, the model looked pretty good, so I took several pictures of it against an ocean backdrop I had previously downloaded and printed on a large scale plotter.




?














Even though it was looking pretty good the visibility of the old numbers bugged me too much and I had to fix it, which I did, upon advice, by painting the section, giving it 2 coats.

Port side.



Starboard side.



I was really freaking out at this point because it looked like crap and you could still see the old numbers. 3 coats of Future later though, I was a happy camper as the old numbers were gone.

Port side.



Starboard side.



You could faintly see where the paint line was though, so I gave it one last coat of Future, which did the trick.
Starboard side.



Port side.



Now, I could finally apply the Dull coat, which I considered not doing but it was recommended that I should.











Unfortunately, near the end of what I thought was the final coat, a damn bug landed on it, and of course, stuck to it. I wiped it off OK and didn�t think anything of it, because it didn�t appear to leave a mark. Well, when I was taking these pictures and got to the port site, there was a shiny spot right where that sucker had landed.



After 3 more light coats, heavy in the friggin� insect zone, it was almost gone. A fourth and final coat removed all evidence of the bug spot.







I maxed out on this post. Stay tuned.

CHEERS!!!

UPDATE 45

So, the original model has been completed and it is awaiting the base and plaques for its final berth. In the meantime, I received the printed bow section of the detailed model�





















�And sprayed it with some lousy Tamiya primer I had. I couldn�t be happier with the way it came out. The only issue was on my end. For some reason I etched the waterline into the model, which means I will be doing some filling and sanding, but the part looks great, with lots of detail.





















During the lull between ships, I built the little OKBGrigorov 1/700 scale USS Thresher class kit that I bought back in November before I started this journey. It took me 3 days, start to finish. It wouldn�t win any competition, but it was fun building it OOB and I like it.

















Here she is with Greenling.





I will let you know when there is any progress on either model.

CHEERS!!!

UPDATE 46

My first ever CAD designed and 3D printed model is at last completed. The base took two tries and there was a typo in the rear plaque that required them to redo it, but it is finished and I am very happy with the way it turned out. It certainly faaarrr exceeds my expectations when I started this adventure. Thanks again for all of your input and enjoy the pix!








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The fine print on the rear plaque says: �This model was designed and built for Travis Coley TM2 (SS) who served on Greenling from January 6, 1969 - June 29, 1973. It was designed using AutoCad from plans of the ship and �printed� in 13 pieces on 3D printers. The majority of the model was printed by Payman Rassoolkhani, the Mushroom Anchor was printed by Shapeways and the Fairings were printed by Click2Detail. The base was made by Wroyce Johnson. Much thanks goes to Tom Dougherty, who provided the plans and advice in the design and construction of the model. Russell Dutnell - July, 2013�

CHEERS!!!

What an impressive proof of concept. I'm really excited to see the "detailed" version of this.

So when is this kit hitting the market????

UPDATE 47

Hi Everybody and Happy New Year! A bit late perhaps.

Greenling has made her final voyage to her new home on the west coast, although she didn�t make it there without suffering significant damage. Despite the fact that I took it to our local shipping store and watched it packed, which appeared to be done well enough to survive the annual engineering egg drop competition, Greenling arrived in her new home port without a single screw blade and a broken rudder.





Needless to say, I was quite disheartened, as was Travis, although he says that he really likes the model. He thinks that he can easily fix the broken rudder and Pavel of Admiralty Model Works, who I have done some CAD work for, came through and printed another screw for me at no charge. In fact, the broken screw may have been a blessing, because the screw that Pavel printed was of considerably better quality than the one that was on it. Thanks Pavel! The pictures below show the new screw as I received it. You can see that whereas the previous screw took considerable work to get rid of the graininess, the new screw needs only light sanding, priming and painting. I hope to spray primer on it tomorrow and paint it Sunday or Monday.





As for the detailed version, Chris, and the kit hitting the market, krgf15, both could happen. The only hold up is the cost. To have all 27 parts of the detailed 1/144 scale model printed by Click2Detail would cost over $600. That is the primary reason that this is my first post in over 4 months. Were it not so expensive, I would have already had it printed and would likely be in the middle of assembly about now. Still, I hope one day to get it printed and assemble it.
Marketing of the kit is an option, and if I thought somebody would pay over $600 for it, it would already be available. Click2Detail has started a new 3D printing marketing strategy, like Shapeways, in which they allow CAD designers to upload their products and they print them and ship them and give the designer a percentage of the sale. Several 1/350 scale aircraft, that I made as part of a display I made for my dad for Christmas, (http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_su ... 57366.aspx), including the T-28 Trojan, T-34 Mentor, U-3A Blue Canoe, B-25 Mitchell, AC-47 Spooky (AKA Puff the Magic Dragon) and T-29 Flying Classroom, are already available, as are 1/144 scale versions of the U-3A Blue Canoe, AD-5 and AD-5W Skyraiders, Luscombes 8A and 8E, and the FJ-4 Fury that I made. The FJ-4B Fury should be available soon. You can see these models, as well as those available from others at: https://click2detail.com/browse_products.php

I have also completed and uploaded the four different versions of Permit/Thresher Class submarines in 1/700 scale.



The models have not been activated, so they aren�t available yet, because C2D is doing a test print of the screws. If they print adequately, they will be included as part of the kit. If they don�t, I will make a template so the modeler can cut one out of card stock. C2D printed the parts required to make the four styles of ships for me (except the screws). The pictures below show how they looked as I received them.







The parts required depend on which ship in the class you want to build. All versions use the same aft part of the hull, but the forward hull section and sail used depends on the particular ship. To my knowledge, there aren�t presently any models of the longer hull and larger sail members of the Thresher class. These kits will allow people to more accurately model USS Haddock (SSN-621), USS Flasher (SSN-613), USS Greenling (SSN-614), USS Gato (SSN-615) and USS Jack (SSN-605). Hopefully it will be available soon.

What an adventure this has turned into!

CHEERS!!!

Cost would hurt, but it would be a nice kit to have. I wish there were more 144 scale submarines....

Any more news?