Calling all Benson-class & Gleaves-class DD fans

[Rick E Davis]

Exactly ... a clipping room was where they loaded 20-mm magazines or 40-mm clips.

[Rick E Davis]

Matthew,

Some of your answers can be found by reviewing all the posts in this thread. Dick gave a fairly good summary of the differences.

One past post I made listed the BENSON-GLEAVES class units that had Ms 12mod(R) camo AND a quad 1.1-in mount and were assigned to the Pacific ... viewtopic.php?f=49&t=24483&start=820#p575215 ... Other units had quad 1.1-in mount, but were assigned to the Atlantic. I have never found photographic evidence that any of the Pacific based units with quad 1.1-in mounts had Mk 51 directors. Not at least during 1942. Most of the Atlantic based units had a single Mk 51 director installed in about October 1942.

Here is a photo of USS FARENHOLT (DD-491) as seen from USS WASP (CV-7). FARENHOLT had her searchlight on the AFT DECKHOUSE while LAFFEY had hers aft of the aft stack. A difference between Bethlehem-SF and Bethlehem-Quincy built units.



Here is a close-up of USS LAFFEY (DD-459) aft deckhouse area. Note that the "tub" bulwarks on the Bethlehem-SF built units were a different design than used on the other Repeat-BENSON/GLEAVES class units.

[MatthewB]

Rick, thanks for the post, and it has helped.... a little.

But that "Help" mostly has been to reveal how utterly in the dark I am here on the six Benson-Gleaves kits I have.

I have the USS Laffey and Farenholt (Woodworth) sorted out.

But that just leaves the:

USS Buchanan, USS Lansdowne, USS Monssen, and USS Livermore to deal with.

For the Buchanan, and Lansdowne, they were delivered in the Ms 12 Mod, and had a 1.1", but could have been re-painted to another Measure on their way to the Pacific, or during their time there.

The Buchanan kit shows the model in Ms 21, but it is also a 1945 kit (which I have acquired the parts to convert to a 1942 outfit, hopefully - for which I will have some questions, following, if you could be so kind).

I have tried searching the thread for this, but:

��In Aug - Nov of 1942, what Ms would the Buchanan have been in? Ms. 12Mod(R)?

��Where would the 1.1" have been? Or, in other words, what did the aft deckhouse roof look like?

��What did the 54 Turret look like? Did it have the canvas half-cover, or was it a "Regular" Turret?

I have sorted out the front end of the ship (The Bridge) by hunting down the appropriate photos. It looks to have the usual round Bridge and 02 level. It looks to have the typical 2 20mm guns up front aft to P/S of the 52 turret on level 01 roof. It looks to have the typical bridge wings, and foremast.

For the USS Lansdowne, I will simply ask where the 1.1" was, and what Measure she was in (assuming that I can track down anything else during the time I am working on the Laffey, Farenholt, and Buchanan.

For the USS Monssen and USS Livermore.

Both look like they are in Ms 12Mod(R). The kits' instructions say that they have 8 20mm Oerlikons, and no heavy AA guns. Is that right?

That should do it for the time being, as I work on these while other kits are slow going.

MB

[Rick E Davis]

If you read this whole thread many of your questions could be answered.

The so called BENSON-GLEAVES class, as Dick described, is a series of "GROUPS" that can be broken down to even smaller groups by which yard they were built at (and when they were completed). So it is a confusing dual class to track configurations or to make BLANKET declarations about their configurations. It is impossible for a plastic kit maker to make a kit of this dual class that can cover ALL of the configurations seen on them during WWII. I have made a couple of spreadsheets for my own use and have observations about various configurations from about 1400 images of this dual-class. The Atlantic-based units of this class can be broken down by DesDiv which will normally show that all units in that DesDiv have the same basic configuration. This was due to the Atlantic Fleet scheduling MAJOR mods and overhauls for the entire DesDiv. In the Pacific, many units were REPAIRED and overhauled individually to to several factors like Battle Damage Repairs.

First off as to "which" units had the canvas covered 5-in mounts, that is easy. The "half-shield/canvas covered" mounts were limited to the "original" BENSON and GLEAVES class units ... DD-421 through 444 ... for the 53 and 54 mounts on FIVE gun units and for 53 mount on FOUR gun units. ALL of the Repeat BENSON-GLEAVES units were all built with fully enclosed 5-in mounts.

Your specific questions deal with the DML 1/700 scale "Two destroyers in a box" kits;

1) USS LAFFEY and an "unspecified" sister dual kit represent Repeat-BENSON class. Even though this kit is intended to model USS LAFFEY, the aft deckhouse is more like the Bethlehem-Quincy built units than the Bethlehem-SF built units.

2) USS BUCHANAN and USS LANDSDOWNE dual kit represent Repeat-GLEAVES class. These two destroyers are modeled after what they looked like after they were (BUCHANAN in May-Jun 1944 and LANDSDOWNE in Mar-Apr 1943) upgrade to the two twin 40-mm mounts and SEVEN 20-mm guns configuration (BUCHANAN and WOODWORTH were the last of the quad 1.1-in mount equipped GLEAVES class units to be upgraded with 40-mm guns) and at the Japanese surrender in Tokyo Bay. JUST like Repeat-BENSON class units (aka LAFFEY discussion), the quad 1.1-in mount was installed in the STARBOARD tub and a single 20-mm gun was installed in the PORTSIDE tub (tubs intended to receive twin 40-mm mounts) ... making for a total of FIVE 20-mm guns when they arrived in the Pacific. Now then, I have found photographic evidence that the remaining surviving Repeat-BENSON and Repeat-GLEAVES class units NOT upgraded to 40-mm guns got additional 20-mm guns SOMETIME in very late 1942 (December?) into early 1943. They had two 20-mm guns added to the rear of the bridge wings ... one port, one starboard. And in at least one photo, a SECOND 20-mm gun was added in the PORTSIDE tub. I don't have dates for these mods and a clear idea of where and how the TWO 20-mm guns on the aft deckhouse were located due to poor quality photos.

3) USS LIVERMORE and USS MONSEEN dual kit represent TWO different configurations of EARLY-GLEAVES class units. This is an unusual kit pairing because the models represent two completely different configurations.

Of the Original BENSON-GLEAVES class units, only four of the GLEAVES class units from DesDiv 22 were assigned to the Pacific (additional Original GLEAVES class units were transferred in 1944). They arrived in the basic early WWII Four-Gun GLEAVES class configuration of four 5-in guns, two TT mounts, and twelve 50-cal MGs. Units of this DesDiv received a few 20-mm guns in place of individual 50-cal MGs after their arrival in the Pacific in a piecemeal way. In the Atlantic the Original GLEAVES class units, pending upgrading to two twin 40-mm mounts, were authorized to replace ALL the 50-cal MGs with SIX 20-mm guns. This is the configuration that the LIVERMORE kits represents. Pretty much all of the Original GLEAVES class were modified to this configuration except for the units in DesRon 7 with FIVE 5-in guns and the four units of DesDiv 22 units (aka 11 out of 18 Original GLEAVES class units).

In May 1942 the units of DesDiv 22 ... USS GWIN (DD-433), USS MEREDITH (DD-434), USS GRAYSON (DD-435), and USS MONSSEN (DD-436) ... and ONLY those units ... were authorized to be modified with NINE 20-mm guns until 40-mm mounts were available to upgrade them ... as seen on the DML MONSSEN kit. Without going through ALL of the specific yard periods when this work was done, none were modified prior to the Battle of Midway, except for GRAYSON that was at MINY being modified during the Battle. The remaining three were modified with NINE 20-mm guns at PHNY at different times in late June through early August 1942 prior to going to the Solomon Islands campaign.

As for camo, most of the early arriving BENSON-GLEAVES class units were painted in a Ms 12mod(R) camo scheme. By August 1942 the new destroyers started to be repainted into Ms 21. Which ones is confusing. It appears that USS BARTON may have been the LAST one to arrive in the Pacific painted in Ms 12mod(R). USS DUNCAN (DD-485) arrived in Ms 21 and photos in early October 1942 show her painted as such. The Pacific Fleet Command ORDERED that all destroyers be repainted to MS 21 from other earlier schemes as "soon as operationally possible" in October 1942. But, for many units ACTIVELY involved in Solomon Islands operations, this doesn't appear to have happened until early in November 1942, if at all prior to their loss.

I can't provide an answer for the camo of many of these destroyers. It appeared that for most destroyers involved in the Battles from August to October 1942 that ARRIVED from the Atlantic in Ms 12mod(R), they retained that camo. Ironically the older destroyers that were in the Pacific at the start of the war, were painted in 5-N, whether you call it Ms 11 or Ms 21 by August 1942. Just when after late 1942 did the Ms 12mod(R) camo units repainted into Ms 21 is TBD for most units. I have tracked down WHEN for some of the early arriving FLETCHERS that arrived in Ms 18 or Ms 22 (FLETCHER may have arrived in Ms 12mod(R)) were repainted into Ms 21. But, I have not tried to track this down for the BENSON-GLEAVES units unless I come across a photo in 80-G.

Edit; More info on Camo of Repeat-BENSON-GLEAVES class units in the Pacific.

Once I sat down and looked at when and where the first seventeen Repeat-BENSON-GLEAVES class units went to War Zones in the Pacific, the list of those in or MAYBE in Ms 12mod(R) was fairly small. Here are the first Twelve that were completed with a single quad 1.1-in mount. The first nine, plus one later, actually went to the South Pacific and the remaining three went to the Aleutian Islands, but some spent time convoy escorting and/or training along the West Coast and Pearl Harbor. I don't know what camo several had due to a lack of photos, but suspect that LANSDOWNE, LARDNER, and maybe MEADE started out in Ms 12mod(R) while in the Pacific. Given when USS DUNCAN arrived in the Pacific and that there was a lag before she actually arrived in the War Zone, she likely was repainted in the Pacific before going to the South Pacific. The Beth-SF units were painted in Ms 21 when completed.

1 DD-483 Aaron Ward ... Federal ... depart for Pac War Zone; 20-May-42 ... arrived in War Zone; PH 2-Jul-42 ... Camo = Ms12R
2 DD-484 Buchanan ... Federal ... depart for Pac War Zone; 28-May-42 ... arrived in War Zone; Tongatabu Jul-42 ... Camo = Ms12R
3 DD-491 Farenholt ... Beth-SI ... depart for Pac War Zone; Jun-42 ... arrived in War Zone; Tongatabu Jul-42 ... Camo = Ms 12R spec
4 DD-459 Laffey ... Beth-SF ... depart for Pac War Zone; Aug-42 ... arrived in War Zone; Efate 28-Aug-42 ... Camo = Ms 21
5 DD-487 Lardner ... Federal ... depart for Pac War Zone; Aug-42 ... arrived in War Zone; Tongatabu 3-Sep-42 ... Camo = Ms 12R?? Or Ms 21
6 DD-486 Lansdowne ... Federal ... depart for Pac War Zone; Jul-42 ... arrived in War Zone; Tongatabu 6-Sep-42 ... Camo = Ms 12R?? Or Ms 21
7 DD-599 Barton ... Beth-Quincy ... depart for Pac War Zone; 23-Aug-42 ... arrived in War Zone; Tongatabu 12-Sep-42 ... Camo = Ms 12R
8 DD-485 Duncan ... Federal ... depart for Pac War Zone; 20-Jun-42 ... arrived in War Zone; Santo 14-Sep-42 ... Camo = Ms 21
9 DD-602 Meade ... Beth-SI ... depart for Pac War Zone; Aug-42 ... arrived in War Zone; Tongatabu 14-Sep-42 ... Camo = Ms 12R??
10 DD-598 Bancroft ... Beth-Quincy ... depart for Pac War Zone; 10-Aug-42 ... arrived in War Zone; Aleutian 17-Sep-42 ... Camo = Ms 12R??
11 DD-492 Bailey ... Beth-SI ... depart for Pac War Zone; 3-Sep-42 ... arrived in War Zone; Aleutian 28-Sep-42 ... Camo = Ms 22
12 DD-488 ... McCalla Federal ... depart for Pac War Zone; 10-Aug-42 ... arrived in War Zone; Noumea 28 Sep-42 ... Camo = Ms 21??
13 DD-605 Caldwell ... Beth-SF 11-Sep-42 Aleutian Sep-42 Ms 21

[JCRAY]

Rick you work too hard!
john

[MatthewB]

Thanks for the reply, Rick,

I have been trying to read the entire thread, but it isn't exactly well organized, and the fact that someone who many here consider an "expert" on the subject matter needs a spreadsheet to keep these organized indicates that it isn't easy to keep straight what is going on with any ship, especially when I (specifically) am not very familiar with USN DDs.

I barely can keep the order straight in which the WWII Classes were created.

BTW, the Buchanan and Landsdowne Kit(s) for the 1944/45 outfits contain the parts to build them in their 1942 Outfits.

They contain the earlier bridge and aft deck and deckhouse, as well as the splinter shields for the Aft AA guns (and the guns themselves, although I am replacing all of the AA guns with either Fine Molds Nano Dread or 3d Modelparts guns).

And the forward platform with the single 20mm is an additional part that can be left off.

I did a parts inventory last night of the kit, and was surprised to learn that they included everything needed for the 1942 builds, and that the parts to build them in 1942 were on the original sprues for the kits (that come with the Laffey and Monssen kits).

The only problems I have come across with some of them is the spotlight where the second set of TTs was located on some of these kits. This spotlight seems to wander around a bit, or have different railings, in some of the ships of the two classes.

I know rick already mentioned that the Benson-class ships did not have the inverted conical railing that was seen on some of the Gleaves-class ships (which I just learned used to be referred to as the Livermore-class). But I have found at least four different spotlight locations and railings on different ships...

Keeping track of all of these things is a labor of Herculean proportions.

One last questions, though.

I see that on some of these ships there is a strange Reel on the aft of the Aft Deckhouse.

It is sort of like two reels stuck together, side-by-side, and is quite large.

What is this thing, and did it replace the railings on the Aft Deckhouse's aft deck? Or were the reels placed to one side or the other of the railings?

Neither the Flyhawk PE instructions, nor the kit indicate how it is to be installed.


MB

[Dick J]

Matthew,

I think the ones with the reels you are talking about were the ones with the DMS conversion. Later in the war, as the number of destroyers started to catch up with demand, a number of the Gleaves class units were converted to fast minesweepers. The tubes were removed and the aftermost 5" gun was replaced with winches and cabling to trail the mine sweeps.

The first 24 units of the "Benson/Gleaves" classes were ordered in batches of 8. The first batch included two built by Bethlehem. (Benson was the first one) Two more were built by Bath Ironworks in Maine. The last 4 were built by navy yards to the Bethlehem design. The next batch of 8 were designed by Gibbs and Cox, and the lead ship of this batch was the Livermore, also built by Bath. The last batch of 8 repeated the Gibbs and Cox design. Bath received permission to extend that design to the two first-batch ships they were building, the Gleaves and Niblack. So for a while, the Gibbs and Cox design was officially referred to as the Livermore class. Only later was it actually acknowledged that the Gleaves was the ship of the design with the lowest hull number, and therefore under the Navy policy, she was the real class leader.

[MatthewB]

OK, I will try to post some images of what I am talking about:

Here, in this image of the USS Barton DD-599 you can see what looks like a set of reels behind the 53 turret.



And, here, again, DD-483 USS Aaron Ward:



And DD-627 The USS Thompson:



And here during the construction of DD-483, USS Aaron Ward:



And during the Construction of DD-486 USS Landsdowne (here the reel is placed off to the Port side of the Aft of the Aft deckhouse):



And on the USS Emmons, DD-457:



I doubt that there is anything that would tell me which ships, or where these Reels were (or WHAT they were - Well, maybe Rick can answer that)) on each of the Benson-Gleaves-class ships who were in the Pacific from 1942 - 1943.

Eventually I will need to know about all of the class in the Pacific during the entire War, but for now I am just trying to get the ships figured out for the Solomons Campaign, and the earlier Carrier Battles (Santa Cruz, Eastern Solomons, Midway). The Aleutians I suppose will also be included, since some ships went South-to-North (and back).

MB

[Rick E Davis]

Exact use for the reels and whether/when they got relocated during refits, is too much work to track down at this time. From the images I have the reels "appear" to be for hoses like firefighting and general "washing-down". The hoses appear to stow flat as they are wrapped around the reels, which tells me they are less likely for anything like refueling hoses.

All I can say is study images of your subject to find out if they are there. But the general location at least early and during much of the war was on the 01 deck, directly aft of the 53 mount on the centerline.

[MatthewB]

Exact use for the reels and whether/when they got relocated during refits, is too much work to track down at this time. From the images I have the reels "appear" to be for hoses like firefighting and general "washing-down". The hoses appear to stow flat as they are wrapped around the reels, which tells me they are less likely for anything like refueling hoses.

All I can say is study images of your subject to find out if they are there. But the general location at least early and during much of the war was on the 01 deck, directly aft of the 53 mount on the centerline.

Thanks... Going through the images I have discovered that a FEW ships (such as the USS Lansdowne, and a few others) had the reels set to the Port (I have yet to see one with it set to the Starboard).

But I did suspect it might be a pretty obscure topic.

BTW.... I posted this in the "Trading Post," but if anyone has another set of the Flyhawk 1/700 USS Laffey/Benson Photo Etch Upgrade kits, I am looking for three - five of them.

MB

[MatthewB]

Matthew,

You are asking a lot of questions here and difficult to answer in a short post. I can't do that right now, nor post images as illustrations.

But, to start; The Repeat-BENSON and Repeat-GLEAVES (four 5-in mounts and one quint TT mount) were completed from DD-454 had two tubs on the aft deckhouse designed for twin 40-mm mounts when they became available (in July 1942). But since 40-mm mounts weren't available, the 24 units completed before July 1942 had an interim quad 1.1-in mount on the STARBOARD side tub and a single 20-mm gun in the portside tub.

The photo of FARENHOLT you reference dated May 1943 (actually was taken in February 1943), shows her AFTER she was upgraded to two TWIN 40-mm mounts.

FARENHOLT as completed was painted in an experimental paint scheme of several colors. I'm unsure when she was repainted into Ms 21.

The 1/700 scale DML LAFFEY kits are designed to represent early Repeat-BENSON class units. Both LAFFEY and FARENHOLT were from these group ... HOWEVER they were built at two different Bethlehem yards. So there are some differences.

I am waiting on the remainder of my PE and on your "Benson/Gleaves" Warship Pictorial booklet to continue working on these kits.

But I do have several questions that might be answerable in the meantime (that are not covered by your other answers), which cover some specific structures.

In this image of the Laffey:



There looks to be some sort of small deckhouse that extends to the sides of the Spotlight tower.

I have seen it on later images of the Benson/Gleaves-class as well (on ships that have their spotlight where the second set of TTs were).

Here you can see it more clearly on DD-560, USS Woodworth:



The photo you posted of the Laffey showed this structure:



Would it have been there in the fall of '42?

I see a similar structure on DD-491, USS Farenholt (which is the other USN Repeat-Benson-class I am building right now - When the rest of my PE sets get here, I plan to do about six of them, so I will be tracking down this structure on other Repeat-Benson units, and on a few regular Benson units):



I notice that on the woolworth, there is a small chest or locker in front of these small deckhouse structure. Do you know what that is, and whether it would be on other ships (and which ones? I realize that might be a futile question).

Why are these structures missing on the DML kits? It looks like they are easily spotted in photographs, and they are on a LOT of the Benson and Repeat-Benson units.

It isn't like they will be that difficult to scratch build (box... slap a hatch on the aft end of it, glue to deck.)

Anyway.... On to the next question.

Spotlights...

The kit has the spotlights on a small riser of tubular steel beams (which forms a tetrahedral box). On top of that riser (in the DML kit) is where the PE base for the Spotlight is supposed to go.

But this looks like it would raise the spotlight WAY too high, looking at the photos I have posted above.

Also, where on the aft deckhouse would the Farenholt's spotlight have been? Would it have had that little deckhouse under the catwalk like the Laffey did?

I am hoping that the Warship Pictorial of the Benson/Gleaves class will help answer a lot of these questions.

I also need to figure out the bulwark layout for the Splinter Shields on the Aft Deckhouses of these ships.

The Laffey's Bulwarks look R/L Symmetrical (mostly), while the DML kit shows them NOT being symmetrical. I don't want to have to re-build the one Deckhouse I have built for this kit.... Although I suppose that after I shave off the Splinter Shielding on the kit that adding whichever pattern of PE bulwarks back on won't be a problem.

MB

[Timmy C]

Matthew, please don't use [img] tags on Navsource photos, as they'll appear only to people who already have those photos in their browser's cache (i.e. they've seen them before recently).

[Rick E Davis]

Matthew,

I didn't write the Classic Warships BENSON-GLEAVES book, Steve Wiper put that book together.

I can't address directly most of your "referenced" images, because I don't know what they are.

Please ... it is SEARCHLIGHT not SPOT LIGHT.

I think that the "Small Deckhouses" you are referring to are lockers. There were lockers for 20-mm and 1.1-in ammo, for stowage of all kinds of things from heavy weather gear to potatoes to repair gear. Some of the lockers were common on all ships in a class or class sub-group. More likely common to the builder that a give ship was built by. Even then, designs changed and because of things like armament changes, the locations of the lockers were moved. There were smaller lockers, for ready ammo boxes "normally" near the 20-mm guns say, or for stowing smaller items like tools for torpedo tubes, etc.

As for why these lockers are not on DML kits; You need to understand that DML ... and ANY other firm making kits of a NUMEROUS class of ships (or tanks or aircraft) ... can't produce EVERY variation seen on all of the ships. Things like the lockers can be replicated on a kit ... more so on a 1/350 scale than or 1/700 scale ... but likely not everyone of them. Many modelers don't care and think there are TOO MANY PARTS as is. Look close on the sprues, the lockers may well be there somewhere, Tim tried to include at least some of these. Also, the BENSON and GLEAVES class kits are a compromise blend of both classes and several sub-groups ... except for the Square-Bridge units.

The location of searchlights and the "height" of platforms they were mounted on the Repeat-BENSON-GLEAVES class units varied. Some were in the former location of the aft torpedo tubes, and most had it on the forward edge of the aft deckhouse on the centerline on a short platform. Check photos to know what the destroyer you are modeling had for the period you are modeling it. The Classic Warships WP-12 book has a lot of excellent photos of this dual-class. There are some errors, but that happens in every book. But the photos are what they are. Many show the ship as "delivered". Fitting-out often changed their appearance in configuration and camo. I have posted MANY images of this class throughout this thread ... you are welcome to review them.

The "standard" bulwark layout for the aft deckhouse medium AA guns on Repeat-BENSON-GLEAVES class units were as seen on the DML kit. The plan was that TWO twin 40-mm mounts would go in those "tubs" with a director immediately in forward of them. Due to 40-mm mounts NOT being available, ONE single quad 1.1-in mount was installed on the STARBOARD side and a SINGLE 20-mm on the PORTSIDE on some 24 units. ALL 24 Repeat-BENSON class units were built by Bethlehem (plus there were six Original Benson units built pre-WWII). HOWEVER, the west coast Bethlehem yards, Bethlehem - SF and Bethlehem - SP yards, had a DIFFERENT bulwark design on the aft deckhouse ... FOR SOME OF THEIR UNITS. The "tubs" were circular in shape and not connected to the director "tubs". LAFFEY was built by Bethlehem - SF, one of nine units built at that yard (and one of only two with this bulwark arrangement) and four units built at San Pedro (all four built with this bulwark design). Actually, most units by the end of the war were modified to a similar style of bulwarks and the directors were moved inboard aft of the searchlight. The DML kit is accurate for OTHER Bethlehem Repeat-BENSON class units at Quincy (six units) and Staten Island (five units) AND all of the Repeat-GLEAEVS class units (except for the Square-bridge units). Tim Dike, the designer of the kit BENSON-GLEAVES kits, admits this was an error for LAFFEY. But it is fixable.

[MatthewB]

Searchlight.... OK... I will be sure to get that right.

So, then it is a matter of keeping track of where the ship was built as to what the various layouts of bulwarks look like....

I need that book to get here...

As for the lockers. They should be easy to build. There does not look as if one is on the sprue, though. It looks like a Locker was built to the Starboard, but not Port. Filling in the gap, and building the locker across the searchlight stand should not be difficult.

And, it does look as if re-locating the Searchlight on the Farenholt should be easy (I finally figured out where the ladder is going in one photo of the Farenholt at that location - to the Searchlight).

MB

[MatthewB]

Oh! And sorry for confusing the WSP Booklets. I got your Round Bridge Fletcher mixed up with Steve Wiper's Benson/Gleaves book.

Plus I managed to identify what the elevated structure is in the kit that they have the searchlight sitting upon (Part D46). It is shown in the Laffey Close-up you posted of the USS Laffey with survivors from the Wasp on board. The kit instructions show this part underneath the platform for the Searchlight, while all of the photos I can find show the platform underneath[/b the structure (Part D46). This part elevates the Searchlight above the crew members who would be on the platform with the searchlight. This certainly makes sense, as you would not want the crew to be able to walk directly in front of those searchlights. They tended to blind you when that close to the direct front.

Even the Gleaves and Repeat-Gleaves units I have seen show the searchlight platform beneath this structure, rather than over it. a Minor correction.

One more question, though.

In the photo of the bulwarks on the USS Laffey (2nd Photo in my above post), there is a guy directly forward of the 53 5"/38 mount, leaning on an object with a "U-shaped" bulwark around it.

What is that object he is leaning upon?

MB

[Dick J]

The "U" shaped bulkhead was the minimal protection for the emergency conning station. If the bridge was abandoned due to damage or fire, the ship could be conned from this after station. There would have been an engine telegraph and a binnacle in that area.

[MatthewB]

In the above picture of "USS Laffey with USS Wasp Survivors..."

There are depth charges sitting open on the deck, or on very low racks of some sort.

Did this mean that the K-Guns for throwing the Depth Charges overboard P/S not yet have the racks on the Laffey?

What about the Farenholt?

I have not seen in the rest of this thread much about the early-war Depth Charge racks for the K-Guns.

MB

[Rick E Davis]

The early destroyers used a method for the K-Gun 300-lb depth charges called ... or at least I do ... the post-arbor method. They attached several basically short sections of pipe vertically on the deck and put the "arbor" (the cradle that held the depth charge and the mortar charge that propelled the depth charge over the side) in the pipe, then put the depth charge on the arbor. The post-arbors were positioned near the K-Gun so that a small crane could be used to lift the "Arbor-Depth Charge" package unto the K-Gun. The USN started experimenting with Roller Racks in early 1942 at Boston Navy Yard, but really didn't start serial installs until late in 1942. The Roller Racks took up far less deck space and a crane was NOT required for K-Gun reloads.

[MatthewB]

The early destroyers used a method for the K-Gun 300-lb depth charges called ... or at least I do ... the post-arbor method. They attached several basically short sections of pipe vertically on the deck and put the "arbor" (the cradle that held the depth charge and the mortar charge that propelled the depth charge over the side) in the pipe, then put the depth charge on the arbor. The post-arbors were positioned near the K-Gun so that a small crane could be used to lift the "Arbor-Depth Charge" package unto the K-Gun. The USN started experimenting with Roller Racks in early 1942 at Boston Navy Yard, but really didn't start serial installs until late in 1942. The Roller Racks took up far less deck space and a crane was NOT required for K-Gun reloads.

THAT would explain those "crane" things over the depth charges in the photos.

I cannot figure out if there are four or six K-guns on the Laffey in the Fall of 1942, though.

MB

[MatthewB]

Also... Aside from whether there are two or three K-guns per side, I am trying to figure out that locker in front of the forward Stack that Dragon has in their 1/700 kits.

In all of the photos I have seen of Benson/Gleaves ships, only the Aaron Ward seems to have this locker, and that is in a 1943 Photo (so I don't know if it was ADDED in 1943, or if it was added earlier and then REMOVED after the photo was taken - later photos I has seen of the Aaron Ward don't have a clear image of that location).

I know that for 1942 it wasn't on the Laffey, Farenholt, Monssen, Buchanan, Livermore, or Landsdowne (or at least not for Oct-Nov of the pictures I have seen... But then maybe someone has seen pictures I haven't).

MB