Calling all Essex-class (WWII configuration) fans

[Capt652]

Hi all!

To anyone interested, I provided a "Personal Information Booklet" to Navsource.org. It is posted in the aircraft carrier section/ Shangri-la CV-38. The booklet was given to new sailors assigned to Shangri-la and explains the layout of the ship and basic rules and duties for personnel new to the ship.

Capt652

[MM2CVS9]

I agree that the stripe is approximatly 3 1/2 feet in width.
EJ

Makes sense. According to Navsource, Essex's full-load draft was 28.5 ft. This should correspond to the top of the boot stripe. It's apparent, then that the three numerals (draft marks) that fall within the boot stripe are 26', 27', and 28'.

I postulate that the bottom of the boot stripe is approx. 25.5' from the keel, and the top is 28.5'. It should be close enough, in any case.

By freezing the video and blowing it up on the screen, I was able to scale the numbers and spacing more accuratly. The numbers starting from the bottom are as follows - 4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. The numbers are 6 inches tall and spaced 6 inches apart. The top of the number 4 scales to four feet from the keel. The bottom edge of the bootstrip is even with the top of the number 6, the one indicated by the bold & underline, making the bottom edge of the bootstrip at 26 feet from the keel and the top of the bootstrip at 29 1/2 feet. The numbers 7, 8, and 9 are within the bootstripe, with the top of the 9 being 6 inches below the top of the bootstipe edge. There are no two digit numbers as they repeat with single digits.
Very interesting. I find the research sometimes takes longer to do than building the model itself. For me, thats half the fun.

EJ

[dfmoss]

Tracy,

From what I read on the Naval Historical Center FAQ page (http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq26-1.htm), there are micro films available for most of the US Navy ships that have been stricken. These are available from Special Media Archives Services Division, NWCS, National Archives and Records Administration at an average cost of $23.

Having read that, I got a little interested! But, I am realistic enough to know that if this were the answer to all our questions, then everyone would have copies.

Do you, or anyone here, happen to know if this is a good option for drawings of the Essex Class carriers? What can one expect to find on these microfilms? Do you know if there are films of most of the Essex class ships?

My expectation is that the rolls for a carrier would likely cost more than the average!

Thanks for any input.

Don

tracy you mention the national archives. how do you get material from them? and is there a way to find specific areas of the ships in thier records or is it prety hit and miss? how do you get in contact with them? and what have you gotten so that if we were to get info from them we are not double doing it? that way if we all get a little info and post it here we'll be able to do more faster,and not be burden on just one person.

You're going to have to burden someone or pay them either way. According to WikiPedia's Entry for that location:

It would take 40 people approximately 100 years to microfilm all of the records currently available at the National Archives and Records Administration division of the Leo J. Ryan Federal Building

Now, these are more than just Navy records, but it gives you a bit of an idea of the scope of holdings they have there. They don't generally have staff available to research for people, but they can answer questions. For example, before deciding to go down, I asked if they had any records for (amongst others) CV-18. The archivist in charge of their records said yes, there were some. When I got on site, I found out that it was one photo in their "Historians Office, Mare Island" files of the ship while she was still on the east coast.

Not as much help as I had hoped.

Those records were well processed; they were arranged for each ship alphabetically, but then I got into some of the general correspondence records for both Mare Island and Pearl Harbor Shipyards, and those were unprocessed; files were organized by file code, not ship, and were generally disorganized and still in their raw format as archives had got them from the Navy. There is no good way for the archivist to go through them and answer as to what they contain... it took me a day and a half just to go through one box. This was in ONE accession that totaled at least 70 boxes.

Another story I overheard is that they have at San Bruno, the Mare Island Photo department's collection of photos from the early fifties to when the shipyard closed in the 1990s. It is 114 boxes long, each box being about 18-24" deep. The only way to find a photo of a particular ship in this group is through the photographer's logs, which themselves span SIX BOXES.

You can make some great hits if you've got the time. If not, it's definitely hit and miss.

[Tracy White]

Ron Smith is more familiar with the microfiche than I so I brought your question to his attention. I will comment vaguely that one class of ship that I had some digging done on had something like six rolls of file, without index. These were ships that were much smaller than the essex class, and were of the details common to both ships, nothing really specific to either. Also, the prices quoted on that NHC page are out of date.

[AA Military Research]

Tracy,

From what I read on the Naval Historical Center FAQ page (http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq26-1.htm), there are micro films available for most of the US Navy ships that have been stricken. These are available from Special Media Archives Services Division, NWCS, National Archives and Records Administration at an average cost of $23.

Having read that, I got a little interested! But, I am realistic enough to know that if this were the answer to all our questions, then everyone would have copies.

Do you, or anyone here, happen to know if this is a good option for drawings of the Essex Class carriers? What can one expect to find on these microfilms? Do you know if there are films of most of the Essex class ships?

My expectation is that the rolls for a carrier would likely cost more than the average!

Thanks for any input.

Don

Microfilm copy cost is $62/reel. I have no idea what's there for Essexes but 3 examples, one reel for BB-26, 33 reels for BB-38 and approx. 90 reels for 4-stacker DD's. Now if you're really lucky there's an index reel and you can order only the reels you need, if not you order all the reels or pay someone to either print frames or generate an index.

[Capt652]

Hi all!

Would anyone know at what point the center paravane chain would terminate on the foc'sle deck for a long hull ship?

Thanks
Capt652

[AmateurModeler.]

I know that several books have been suggested throughout the forums, but I was wondering if anybody could recommend 1 or 2 historical books that would help a ROOKIE ship builder. I will be starting the Trumpeter USS Yorktown CV-10 1/350 very shortly.

My grandfather served on the Fighting Lady between '44 and '46, and I would like to attempt to portray the ship as best as I could during that time, realizing of course that 1) I haven't built too many plastic models since a kid, 2) I have never built a ship, and 3) I'm quite ashamed of my lack of ship knowledge.

If anyone could recommend a few "starter" books for me focusing on the Yorktown or Essex class, I would very much appreciate it. (While a "sin" perhaps on these forums,) I know I can never get her historically correct in the finest details, especially on a first build, but I would like to correct many of the obvious (and perhaps not so obvious) details of the Trumpeter set. I'm hoping (perhaps naively) that I will be able to find a few books at Patriots Point when I visit the Yorktown in the coming weeks.

Thanks ahead of time for any help and guidance.

PS - For all of those that are building or have built her, I have really enjoyed looking at your models and reading the forums. Thanks.

[Tracy White]

(While a "sin" perhaps on these forums,)

I truly hope we don't come across that way. The information I present here is for those to use if they want to, but I have no problem with those who just want to build something for fun. I don't speak for anyone else however....

I personally like researching and correcting things as it makes me feel closer to the ship and crew, but we all take different things out of our hobbies.

There isn't one book now on Yorktown or the essex class that I would consider comprehensive. I hope to produce one myself soon, but I need another trip to NARA II to finish the research and the money's just not there this year. In the interim I would suggest as a starter the WR Press "Essex Class Carriers In World War II" By Glenn Arnold; ShipCamouflage.Com has them for $28. This site, too, is an excellent resource, as you hopefully agree. Alan Raven's hardcover "Essex-Class Carriers" is valuable too, but is long out of print and a quick check showed them starting at $70 a copy used. Register and drop me a line... I've helped out many people here with details, and everyone starts out as an amateur... there is no shame in trying something that you haven't before.

[AmateurModeler]

Oh no, I didn't mean anything bad by that comment ("sin" see above) at all. This site is the best thing since sliced bread for me ever since I decided to tackle that beautiful girl. I was just implying that I would love to do a whole lot more for this model but I know my own limitations, and my skills are far less than the beautiful (correct) ships shown on this site. Having said that, half of my "fun" with this model will come from researching, learning, and taking advantage of this site.

...and I totally agree with you. Part of the reason why I want to tackle this model, take advantage of this forum, and visit the Fighting Lady in December is to get to know the ship, and indirectly, my grandfather, a little more while enjoying this hobby.

As to your answer, thank you for the suggestions. Because of this forum, I was already planning on ordering Glenn Arnold's book and "Warships Data 5, USS Yorktown," based on Steve Larsen's build and comments, and I will seriously consider Alan Raven's book.

Any thoughts on "The Anatomy of a Ship: The Aircraft Carrier Intrepid" for help on the Yorktown? I don't know anything about the book but I see many referencing it on the forums, and being the CV-11, I would assume that there are many similarities with the Yorktown (?). You can just PM me, I don't want to get this thread too far off topic. Thanks for your help ...I look forward to my build and the vast resources found here.

[Capt652]

Hi all!

Would anyone know at what point the center paravane chain would terminate on the foc'sle deck for a long hull ship?

Thanks
Capt652

If I may, a follow-up question...

Would anyone know at what point the center paravane chain would terminate on the foc'sle deck for a SHORT hull ship?

Raven's book has no detail, ATOS book shows paravane rigging from the starboard side bow and a 3D cut-away view of the bow with reference to the mooring line cutout but no mention of that chain. (The chain is clearly visible in the photographs of Interpid.)

Thanks,

Capt652

[Capt652]

Any thoughts on "The Anatomy of a Ship: The Aircraft Carrier Intrepid" for help on the Yorktown? ...

Hi AmateurModeler!

Just my two cents, the ATOS book is a must have. Anyone that is going to spend so much time on a build of a capital ship such as a mighty aircraft carrier needs to have this book for reference. It sure helps me understand the mechanicals of a very complex ship.

Capt652

[Capt652]

Hey Am Mo,

What scale are you building, 1:700 or 1:350?

Capt652

[dfmoss]

I have a quick, and maybe stupid question.

On page 49 of Warship Perspectives: Essex Class Carriers in World War Two, there is a photo of USS Princeton (CV 37) in drydock. Just above the cradle, inboard of the shaft, there is some sort of opening visible.

Can anyone tell me what this is?

Around the hobby shop this afternoon the leading ideas are (tongue firmly in cheek):
1. Glass viewport to watch for submarines
2. Hatch to deploy frogmen
3. Exhaust port (watch out for the X-Wing fighters!)

TIA for any help.

Don

[MM2CVS9]

I have a quick, and maybe stupid question.

On page 49 of Warship Perspectives: Essex Class Carriers in World War Two, there is a photo of USS Princeton (CV 37) in drydock. Just above the cradle, inboard of the shaft, there is some sort of opening visible.

Can anyone tell me what this is?

Around the hobby shop this afternoon the leading ideas are (tongue firmly in cheek):
1. Glass viewport to watch for submarines
2. Hatch to deploy frogmen
3. Exhaust port (watch out for the X-Wing fighters!)

TIA for any help.

Don

It's a cooling water discharge port for the after generators in after auxillarry machinery room.

EJ

[dfmoss]

It's a cooling water discharge port for the after generators in after auxillarry machinery room.

EJ

Thanks!

Don

[Capt652]

Hi all!

I posted an update on my "Shangri-La".

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=36797&p=247800#p247800

Capt652

[Guest]

Hello

Does anybody knows what was the real shade used as a primer, on the real carriers ?

[Roger Torgeson]

Why not try and find a copy of the book "The Fighting Lady" by Clark G. Reynolds, ISBN 0-933126-78-6 it�s published by Pictorial Histories out of Missoula Montana. It�s the new Yorktown�s Pacific War story.

[Jose Chaica]

I�ve read in several sources that Yorktown switched from MS 33 10A to MS 21 in 1945, but does anybody knows exactly when ?

Thanks.

[keith hufnagel]

I believe Yorktown was painted into Ms. 21 between June 13-22 1945 at San Pedro, Philippines. The issue of primer paint color I believe was Dark Green(84-D)