The Ship Model Forum

HMS Rose

6th rate 24-gun ship (1740)

HMS Rose is my next sailing cruiser project in 1/700. I am not building the HMS Rose, whose replica played HMS Surprise in Master & Commander, but an older Rose.

This Rose was of the type of cruiser, which was the standard small cruiser of the Royal Navy of the first half of the 18th century. The Royal Navy tried to combine a strong gun armament with a high freebord. The first 6th rates of this type built in 1719 had only 20 6-pounders on the upper deck. The main deck was above the waterline � as in the bigger two-decker, but in contrast to the �true frigate�. There were only oarports, which make possible to row the ship, but the hull was optimised for sailing.

But when the armament should be strengthened the Royal was not able resist the temptation to arm also the main deck. The ships of 1733 Establishment got two 9-pounders on the main deck aft. The ships of the 1745 Establishment got an additional pair of 9-pounders on the main deck. Also the 6-pounders of the main deck were exchanged to 9-pounders. The superstructure was enlarged and the quarterdeck was equipped with two 3-pounders. The effect was very detrimental to the sailing qualities, which demonstrated that this type was dead-end for the development of the sailing cruiser. The Royal Navy replaced it with the �true frigate�, which was developed from conquered French privateers.

In spite of her bad sailing qualities the HMS Rose was quit successful. She was one of the ships of the 1733 Establishment and she was built in 1740 in Rotherhithe. Rose was sold in 1755. In the War of Austrian Succession with Spain Rose attacked between 1740 and 1745 Spanish shipping in America. She made such a huge amount of booty that she was described as the richest British ship sailing from America.

I am using drawings of the HMS Lyme by Laszlo Benczur and drawings of HMS Lyme included in The Story of Sail by Veres Laszlo and Richard Woodman, which I have reduced to 1/700. Lyme was also built 1740 in Rotherhithe. I have original plans of HMS Fox built also in 1740 in Rotherhithe, which were identical to those of Lyme. Therefore I considered the ships of this type built at the same time on the same shipyard to be nearly identical. I have chose HMS Rose, because her history is much more interesting than Lyme�s. About the Lyme it is only known that she foundered at sea in 1747, which is not surprising considering the sailing qualities of this type of 6th rates.

Here are the plans:



I built the hull until the main deck using a 0.5 mm thick polystyrol sheet, on which I clued a 0.25 mm thick sheet to simulate the sheer. At the bow and the stern I clued two 1 mm thick sheets and one 0,25 mm thick sheet, which made it easier to form the bow and the stern. I left space between them, because I want to show the two 9-pounders on the main deck.



Using cut out parts of the plans as a template I checked the form of the hull:





The necessary 9-pounder guns, 3-pounder guns and 3/4-pounder swivel are brass barrels produced by Burkhardt Masch:



Here is a detail view of the 9-pounder:

YAY! another tiny sailing ship by Maxim! HURRAH!

Can't wait!

But furthermore i'm still waiting on you to do a DIO!

I'd like to see a dio of the Battle of Lake Erie... and you'd be perfect for it!

1/700 brass cannons and swivel guns, that is too fraggin cool!!!! How much did they cost?

kennylibben wrote:YAY! another tiny sailing ship by Maxim! HURRAH!

Can't wait!

But furthermore i'm still waiting on you to do a DIO!

I'd like to see a dio of the Battle of Lake Erie... and you'd be perfect for it!

Ditto that

Maxim,
I shall look forward to your build!
I had a look over at modellmarine.de but couldn't find your cannons. I would really like to know what scales he does cannons for wooden ships in. Do you know?
Cheers,
Fraser

@ Kenny:
why do you not built a dio of Battle of Lake Erie in 1/700 yourself? I do not built dios. But you could use similar techniques to build your own dio. An easier alternative would be the 1/700 kits of Skytrex or 1/1200 and 1/300 kits by Rod Langton (see e.g. here for some built models and here for the site of the company. There are some US briggs and sloops available). The experiences of other ship modelers with small sailing ships would be very welcome.

@ Coaster:
Burkhardt turned the barrels especially for this project. They are not part of the normal products. If you need barrels for wooden ships, you would have to provide him with drawings and ask him, if he could produce them. I think that he would be able also to turn guns in bigger scales. You could e-mail him using the "contact us" button on the shop site.

@ ChrisC:
The barrels costs 1 Euro/barrel.

Looks good, Maxim. Those guns are amazing! I won't ask wether the muzzles are drilled out? Good luck and keep us posted!

Thanks Maxim!
Fraser

Maxim,

i'm afraid my hands are not 1/700 compatible.

Thanks for the info Maxim. I'm going to have to try one of these little 1/700 sailing ships someday.

MichelB wrote:Those guns are amazing! I won't ask wether the muzzles are drilled out?

No, the bore is too small for normal borers

I worked on the ship's sites until the upper deck. The gunports for the 9-pounders aft are visible. The base is a plastic stripe, which is 0,5 mm thick and 0,5 mm high. The height corresponds to the lower edge of the gun ports. On this stripe a 0,5 mm thick and 1 mm high stripe was clued. This height corresponds to the upper edge of the gunports.

Wow...

Maxim, you make it look easy.
That's a great choice of subject, too; those demi-battery frigates were some strange birds...any chance you'll be modelling the sweeps deployed to highlight the wierdness to full effect?

Tom L. wrote:That's a great choice of subject, too; those demi-battery frigates were some strange birds...any chance you'll be modelling the sweeps deployed to highlight the wierdness to full effect?

I have not thought about showing the sweeps yet. How you would show them on a waterline model? Out of the water? Or "in the water" without the part of the sweeps in the water? The later would be perhaps easier, because could be depicted with round material (e.g wire).

I have a photo of contemporary model of 6th rate (HMS Blandford?) of the 1719 establishment with sweeps. I looks very interesting, but it is a full hull model.

In Line of Battle Gardiner wrote that these 6th rates were developed from the bigger galley frigates (built in "in the manner of the Dursley Galley"), which were also demi-battery ships.

I thought that the Rose is a good ship to learn how to built a true two-decker, but this type is also itself very interesting - although it was a dead-end in the developtment of the sailing cruiser.

Maxim i need an update! i'm going through withdrawal!

(I hope you know you are my favorite thread...)

kennylibben wrote:Maxim i need an update! i'm going through withdrawal!

Hi Kenny, I have to apologise myself for the delay. I was in Amsterdam photographing some contemporary models, e.g of this similar 24-gun ship in Amsterdams Historisch Museum:



I completed the ship's sites with a 0,5 mm thick and 0,5 mm high plastic stripe, which form the part above the gun port until the upper deck:



Does someone know, if the walls inside on the main deck level were painted or left in wood colour?

i would assume wood color... but i have no professional knowledge on this topic.

Glad to see your back!

Iwould imagine that if there were guns on the main deck the bulwarks would have been red...deck too...I think.
Fraser

I decided to paint the deck "wood colour" and the "walls" redbrown:



It will be only possible to see inside this deck through the gun ports. And there will be the 9-pounder guns. Therefore I do not think that it will possible to see something inside.

The brass barrels were black-oxided using Messingbraun of Fohrmann-Werkzeuge.

I did not built real mountings for the 9-pounder, because the gun ports are too small to see them. They are only a 0,8 mm high, 0,5 mm thick and 1,5 mm long plastic blocks, which were painted red brown:



Afterwards I added the two 9-pounder on the main deck:



The next step will be the upper deck:

Max,

For the 9 pounder guns, test small parts of different electric wires...




Jef