The Ship Model Forum

Hello,
it's right time to start another participant of Guadalcanal campaign:
IJN Kirishima on the table:



I purchased also the wooden deck - but I still didn't decide if I use it... Wooden deck has a thickness - in this point quite big one. Most of details just sinking down in it or just dissapearing.



I'm considering to make it as PE...

Anyway - Main superstructure also will be totally replaced by PE set. Design work just started:

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cheers!
Greg

Blimey Greg, you may as well just start making ships entirely out of photo etch the rate you're going!

A photo etch deck, I ask you...

The photo etched deck might be the better alternative compared to the wood replacement. If the bollards , chocks, hatches, look where they should be then, go for it!




Bob Pink.

Yes. Deck will be photoetched...

In the meantime crucial step of project succesfully done!

The deck of superstructure fit perfectly each other











I was afraid about how the tripod fits to that. But it goes perfectly!

Now I can focus on designing all details of main tower
And that's a BIG fun for me....

Very good indeed--it keeps it all nice and thin and fine-scale...

Bravo!

some advices if I may...

Please do not draw in the butt-end on the planks-
--especially in 1/700
-they are waaaaaay over-scale on just about all wooden decks and all the eye sees is butt ends making traversing lines across the deck-

do use a flexible glue for your plastic hull to PE decking-- brass and plastic expanding at differing rates

otherwise there may be problems with the thermal expansion coefficients and worst case scenario--on a long hull like that you will have the hull trying to warp --whilst breaking the glue joints if they are rigid or brittle...

Excellent design work to get it all to fit the tripod so nicely


11 years back I had far more trouble on a simpler bridge--(1/700 Bretagne)

http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... tagne.html


no PC back then -- just old fashioned estimations

Hello Jim ,

Thanks for your nice words! And advice!

When I�m going through pictures for planking studies I come to the conclusion that in fact ship builders were trying to eliminate planking as much as we are trying to get them visible
I was thinking to make randomized butt-ends. I will use thinner line for butt-ends than for the longitudinal lines. Might happen in etching process that some of them even will not appear due to their thinness ... or appear partially. Having thinness and randomizing process together - results could be interesting...
I�m going to apply different technique than all companies producing PE deck. I hope the result might be interesting. Planking should look more natural... we will see....

What kind of glue you would recommend? PVA?

I was looking all of your ships many times. At least several times each... also in Polish magazine �Modelarstwo Okretowe � I like them very much ! Specially your last project in Scapa Flow... Absolutelly great looking Hindenburg ...

This is coming along superb!!! I'm looking forward seeing the pagoda all completed




Jose

Hours spent with computer work did not bring much in real

I decided to replace wooden deck with photoetched ...
I redid planking. There are different thicknes of chinks (longitudinal and transversal) and I hope some of them even will dissapear in etching process. That's actually my goal would be






I will also make much more accurate surroundings for barberts, deck equipment and all fittings

I have a plan to create a depresed deck - as originally was:



It should be quite easy. Kit allows it:





I just a question of sanding ...

I have to ask you once again- -look at the photo of the real deck--one cannot see a single butt end in the planking...

I hope the paint process will smooth the visual nature

Good work

JIM B

Jim,

I went through many pictures of IJN ships. Most of them was taken bow/stern perspective, when longitudinal lines are extraoridinary exposed and butt ends are minored. I found it very hard to see pictures taken from a side - just to compare.

This summer I had opportunity to visit HMS Belfast
I took tons of pictures... !

some of them:





Here we can clearly see both line types: longitudinal and transversal.... to my knowlegde Japanese heavy ships from beggining of XX have been designed (Kongo has been even build) in England. IJN was closelly looked at English design. And followed it.

I'm confused of this point...

I hope not to have offended you....

=============================

This is my personal feeling.- please disregard if you disagree...
==================================================



Butt ends in 1/700 are a model-making fashion-

they create "modellers models"....-- as opposed to models that look like the ship does in photos of the real ship-- ie they are overdetailed with overscale features -that look interesting nd intricate -- but terminally-- when rationale is applied-- by comparison with a scale figure-they are waaaaaayyyy overscale( place a 1/700 figure next to a butt end on a typical plastic or wood deck ==> usually the butt ends are the size of the figures thigh or torso even-!!when in real life 1/1 scale-- a butt end or indeed a caulking line is usually half a finger width .
( this also applies to PE handrails and most rigging...-- but of course I make an exception there for myself also LOL!!! )


The butt ends on a real ship are visible when you view them in 1/1 scale from the vantage point of your eyes looking down at the deck--look along the deck and you usually nit see the butts anymore...

the eye picks up the longitudinals--but does not form a pattern with the butt-ends
always remember when you are walking on a real ship- Belfats , Missouri, etc etc) and looking down the deck is 1 m 75 or away from the eyes

One will NEVER look at a 1/700 model deck from that scale distance( your nose would be on the turret!!)

In 1/96 scale Butt ends are fine-- but even there they can start disturbing the eye

Now,... whilst accentuated caulking lines in 1/700 are obviously overscale-- but it does indicate the lay of the wood- when shaded with dark brown or grey rather than harsh black the effect is pleasing and looks much like the overhead photos you posted earlier-- but not a butt end to be seen.

Plank butt ends - overscale as they are in a regular pattern ( which may well repeat the plank laying practice of teh real ship) in 1/700--and often in 1/350 also always creates-- in my eyes-- the effect of an 'excel spread sheet' on a model-- completely destroying the subtlety that 1/700 can have.


Indicate the plank differentiation--the smaller the scale the less contrast the effect should have -- either in colour--or as I often do-- a few random planks with a very very gentle pencil stroke-- the observers eye may register the butt end-- but the eye is not overwhelmed...

Here are some image examples that ( in my view!! ) show all that is wrong with portraying butt ends ins small scales






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here are some examples of my own models--these are all 1/350

but indicating the reasons for my above strong feelings....

Older model of mine 1/350 Oregon with pencilled butts-- faaaaar tooo heavy!!





this was a model I built 6 moths later-- less butt ends more subtle--still too heavy ( 1/350 Brooklyn)




here is a recent 1/350 model of mine with no butt ends--just occasional random indication of

and also the caulking hardly accentuated--






in 1/700 I would never indicate any butt ends in planking

JIM BAUMANN wrote:I hope not to have offended you....


This is my personal feeling.- please disregard if you disagree...

Absolutelly not!

I'm looking to find balanced compromise between real model accuracy in 1/700 scale and visual imagination or expectation when we looking at model.

Your are right - we see the deck from less than 2m distance (usually ). Looking at it from more than 50 - you cannot see planking anymore. Or you see just most contrasted ones.


I will make a test etching of sample deck with very thin (and various) caulking lines before I take final decision. We see how it will look like ...

greetings from Poland
Greg

I have to agree with Jim, planking butt ends are inappropriate for 1/700.

This is a preliminary layout:

I did some of but ends - there are exaggerated due to laser printing. They will be much more thinner.



for sure there will be effect of disappearing depends on point of view:




I will make preliminary deck with simple paint - if you won't like - I will change it

Greg

Fascinating, mate!

But don't make it to please us, unless you plan to market your own line of photo-etch wooden decks ( ) � make it in a way that you are satisfied with.

finally ...
I have finished the design of main pagoda
now it goes for etching
I must say during the drawing exercise I had good time to analysed the assembling procedure. The construction consists more than 300 pieces...




I hope it will work out all together ....

Im envious. Great work . Not sure I want to learn how to do CAD for this hobby. Hmm maybe next year when I do Yamashiro

Yamashiro is the next battleship I'm going to build. Right after Zuikaku...
Just gathering the reference materials now....

deck reconstruction just started





all items have been removed:




BTW - Fujimi did great job here. Details are molded in really high quality



PE deck ready, fixation ports for deck equipment in proper sizes and shapes




preassembled deck






fits perfectly!

Wow. That looks great.