Canada?

[kennylibben]

I was listening to a song called The War of 1812... im not sure who sings it but they are canadian. Its a comical song but its supposedly all true facts. They say that its the only war the yankee's lost other than vietnam... and the alamo... and the bay of "ham".

Well first off the bay of pigs wasn't a war... im not sure what to describe it but it was barely anything... second... the alamo was a BATTLE that we lost, but we won that war... if you can say WE. it was the Republic of Texas at the time... third, Vietnam we did not official lose... just lost interest but i will give them that gratitude... I usually just side with "lost" cuz we sure didn't win. and Finally.... WE WON THE WAR OF 1812!

I'm just curious... do canadians in general feel they won the war...(did they even fight? i usually only here about when they hid behind the british or french and whoever was in charge of their town next they hid behind them!)... or is it just this group that thinks they won?

[fatty]

[kennylibben]

Well they weren't independent but they were still Canada and Canadians. Just like the Colonies... they weren't self governed but they were viewed by themselves, the british, and everyone else as a their own region... they weren't considered the British.

[David Griffith]

Dear Kenny,

I'm speaking from the other side of the pond, and therefore might be considered as "the enemy", but my understanding of the War of 1812 is that it was not really won by either side. The treaty at the end just confirmed the "status quo ante" and neither side came out of the affair particularly covered in glory. A few frigate captains on both sides did, but for the countries as a whole it was an episode perhaps better forgotten.

Regards,

David Griffith (ducking behind the bulwarks to avoid the 24 pounder cannonballs!)

PS. OK, OK, I won't forget some British Tar Shouting "Huzzah, huzzah, her sides are made of iron!!!"

[kennylibben]

yup, but the fact was we were defeding you were attacking we eventually pushed you back out. Therefore i believe we are the victors since you didn't gain anything accept the join of burning down the white house... but hey, the current one is much cooler anyways.

[Anonymous]

Do Canadians think they won the War of 1812? The answer is yes and no.
If the stated goal of the United States was the physical conquest of Canada, then
'yes' Canada 'won' by not being over-run. But there was little martial glory in it
for Canadians. The main battles in what is now southern Ontario were determined
by small forces of British regulars aided by local militia and in the first year of the war
by natives. The key to not being over-run was not what the British regulars did or the
militias -- it was the war plans and general incompetence of American land forces (as
opposed to the generally excellent fighting qualities of American naval forces). The key
to Canada in 1812 was assembling an army and driving the Lake Champlain -- Richelieu
River -- Montreal corridor. Take Montreal and you have Canada. But American forces
did not try this until the fall of 1813 -- and then were beaten back by small force of
canadien militia. So, Canadians really don't believe they 'won' the war: the view is that
the Americans didn't win it. The peace treaty restored everything as it had been before
the war but it did lead to one interesting outcome -- the world's longest and most
successful naval disarmament treaty which from 1818 essentially demilitarized the
Great Lakes.

[kennylibben]

Oh, and we gained alot from the war too.... like control of the great lakes thanks to Commodore Oliver Hazard Perry!

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately for you but fortunate for us Canucks, you didnt gain control of them. Its called shared ownership. This is why we (as in the Canuck gov't) are currently fighting to NOT let the US take water out of the Great Lakes. Last year the Great Lakes water line in general was up to 3 FEET lower than normal due to less rain and snow, we cant afford to have you Amis draining them

Do we generally feel we 'won' the war. Likely so. This is one of the rare things Canadians take pride in but we shouldnt because it wasnt 'Canadians' who did anything. It was the British who scorched the White House and generally speaking it was the British who 'won', with some timely assistance by the natives and our local militias armed with mighty sharp pitchforks. Canadian history books generally attribute the 'winning' of the war of 1812 to a poorly organized and pitifully led US attack along with timely British counterattacks.....much the same could be said about the US war in Vietnam. No fault of the soldiers involved, just the idiots at the top.

[Werner]

Does that include Michigan? Since 1900 the reversal of the Chicago River (one of the "Seven Technological Wonders of the Modern World", which shows you how easily our forebears were amused) sends billions of litres from The Great Lakes into The Gulf of Mexico every year (along with my toilet flushings).

W

[Timmy C]

Does that include Michigan? Since 1900 the reversal of the Chicago River (one of the "Seven Technological Wonders of the Modern World", which shows you how easily our forebears were amused) sends billions of litres from The Great Lakes into The Gulf of Mexico every year (along with my toilet flushings).

W

That way it won't pollute our waters.

[Werner]

I thought the only significant remaining pollution in the Great Lakes was asbestos from mining operations in Thunder Bay, Canada.

W

[Timmy C]

Well, if you didn't do that reversal thingy, then all your waste and stuff will flow into the lakes, right?

[ddp]

kenny, better check your history as you got some things wrong. for example the british burnt washington but did not burn down the white house as that is the same building with additions added over the decades that existed before the war of 1812. the reason the white house is white is because of the white paint covering the scorch marks when the brits attempted to burn the building down. this is retaliation for the burning of york which is present day toronto. 3 wars the americans tried to invade & conquer canada & 3 times canada defeated you. 1st time was during the american revolution & tried to take quebec. the 2nd time during the 1812 war & the 3rd just after the american civil war when the finnigans(irish americans) tried to attack canada.

[Timmy C]

I thought they are called the Fenians? And they weren't really fighting for America, more to retaliate against the British for occupying Ireland.

[ddp]

yes you are right.

[C T]

Kenny,
If you look closely at the War of 1812 you will find it was the USA's first unpopular war fought over a system that was abolished prior to the start of the war and mismanaged to a level that totally bogles the mind.
First of all New England instigated the start of the war over the impressment of seamen on the high seas by the Royal Navy. With the end of the Napoleanic Wars the practice ended and was formally renounced by parliment before the USA declared war. After this was all said and done New England refused to participate in the war and almost seceded from because of it. More New York State Troops were stationed on the Mass. border than the Canadian border. Thirteen NY regiments refused to cross the Canadian border when ordered to as they had been raised to defend New York not invade British territory this halved the invading army dooming the invasion to defeat. The British meanwhile were not immune from folly in the affair and proceeded to ignore the important ports of New York and Boston invading instead in the Chesapeake River and march on and burning the new US Capital at Washington. Actually the first time any of my family paid a visit to the US he was a Corporal in the HLI liked it so much he came back in 1825 and settled in New York. After burning all the public buildings in the capital except the Patents Office because the clerk in charge refused to go the Sailed for Baltimore and were stopped by a stout defense of Fort Mc Henry. The peace treaty which reafirmed the status quo of the situation prior to hostilites was signed in Ghent and the Battle of New Orleans was fought after the treaty was signed. That battle brought to prominance Andrew Jackson who was the first popularist president. Who won none of the combatant nations. Who lost? The remaining North Eastern Indians. Without the support of the British they were ulitmately forced west or signed treaties pinning them to reservations. The naval war was a flea verse an elephant but the fledgling US Navy showed on a ship by ship basis they could stand up to the Royal Navy. However the much larger Royal Navy had very little problem in gradually pinning the US Navy in ports. All ten of the US Army's regiments fought in the war and for the most part did well. Probably the most lasting effect of the war was that never again would England and the US wage war against one another.
C T

[Mark Petersen]

In the end I think the Canadians "won" more from the war (IMO no wins in a war, the victor only losses less) because it helped to create the environment for the eventual establishment of the Confederation along with another siminial crisis centered around "54-40 or Fight". The Treaty of Gehnt in the end really did not solve the problems that helped cause the war. One of the most important being impressment of American seaman (or more acurately seaman from American flagged merchantment). That issue had disappeared with the conclusion of the Napoleanic Wars. The US of course did establish itself as a truely independent nation that had to be treated with in the international sphere of relations. Something that I am not sure the European powers of the time recongnized. But other than that the only thing the US gained IMO is the removal or supposed removal of British influence from the Northwest Territories and the region of the Louisianna Purchase. The real losser was in the end of course Britian. While victorious in Europe the wars of the early 19th century drained her economicaly to the degree that it took her a long time to recover IMO. But fortunately for her she really had no one that could rival her in terms of her economic potential and industry at the time. But what the world as a whole gained or suffered from depending on your POV was the Pax Britianna that allowed her to stick her nose in the affairs of other nations for the next century. Just my $.02

[Gloup-Gloup]

I thinks the real winner it's the beaver on the 5 cent, because the real Canadian are the French Canadian ( the one in the low Canada )and the English side are to much British or even American to be real Canadian and here ( sadly ) the French Canadian are still the slave of somebody, everyone ( (tourist from the world wide) which came in the Quebec province say that we are differant from the rest of the Canada and not only with the poutine, we are the real winner of the war and the bigest looser of this war Snif Snif.....

But today with the imigration process that mean nothing any more

I hope everyone will
understand my English

Marc Pominville
Montreal,Quebec
Canada

[ddp]

the real canadian is the native people of canada as they were here way before the french or english. the french canadians are no more slaves then the rest of the people of canada, it's all in your mind.

[chuck]

It's debatable who won. But it seems to me that Britain lost because she defeated herself. She exposed herself to real strategic risk, she dispersed her force from the main theater in Europe, she cost herself a great deal of money. But there was never any net gain she could conceivable have acquired by doing subjecting herself to any of this.