The Ship Model Forum

by **Iceman 29** » Fri Aug 11, 2023 5:09 am

Tks to you both!

Stephane wrote:
(Scratchbuilding)

All finished!

Many thanks to Pascal for his superb Oerlikon, which finishes off the front deck magnificently!

The whole thing was finished off with a general 'juice' of patina, without excess, which just brings out the details and avoids the toy look.

I don't really like the idea of a single figure, but I admit that on a sailing boat it's a bit necessary, and it also puts the scale into perspective.

Once again, I'm assuming a certain high degree of artistic licence on this one - it's my pleasure - so please don't look for accuracy in the reproduction, it's clearly not there...

It's undoubtedly an ELCO 80 (the overall volumes are accurate to get the general feel) but the details are largely improvised, as is a certain mix of equipment, even if here we're clearly in the late 1945 models which were real little "gunships"...

I thoroughly enjoyed this project, which had always been on my mind, and it will undoubtedly remain my only sailing model (inauguration - or shipwreck! - in Cherbourg, France, at the beginning of September), and one which will not be sailing very often...

Thanks to all those who have followed and commented, it's always encouraging and instructive, and I'm happy for my part to bring to the forum some slightly 'offbeat' and atypical creations.

by **Fliger747** » Fri Jul 28, 2023 3:35 am

My father, an overran of the Pacific war and still alive at 98! These weapons mean something to me for without them I might not be here!

USN wasn't afraid to breach the NIH (Not invented here) and forthwith adopted the finest weapons available, the 20 mm Orelikon and 40 mm Bofors. Those teamed with eh 5"38 director technology and VT fuse made for the most formidable air defense of the time. A Battleship became not a target but a floating FLAK TURM to be avoided.

by **NavyShooter** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 7:54 pm

Magnificent!

I'm super impressed with how you've made all of these artillery pieces!

NS

by **Iceman 29** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:55 pm

Here's the finished 20 mm Oerlikon gun, lacking the bag for the cartridge cases, I'll see if I can make it out of fabric or 3D.

The color used to paint it is US Navy light gray 5L from Lifecolor. A brand I'm mastering now...

For the gun itself, I mixed and applied effects with Revell SM302 satin and Humbrol MET53.

Then I used Tamiya "panel line accent color" gray juice sparingly on the whole to give contrast to the details and a bit of patina.

Now I need to varnish the whole thing.

Click 2 times to enlarge.

by **Iceman 29** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 4:34 am

Indeed, thanks for the clarification Rick.

by **Rick E Davis** » Wed Jul 26, 2023 12:07 am

Be careful on relying on "Museum Ships" for accuracy of 20-mm gun configurations.

The twin 20-mm mount shown on a "FLETCHER", is onboard USS KIDD (DD-661). She lost her 20-mm guns in about 1952-53 and didn't have any during the rest of her long career. The twin 20-mm mount seen in the photo on the fantail (and others on the ship with Mk 14 gunsights) was added after becoming a museum ship. The lack of a Mk 14 gunsight is more of a reason of a lack of the device.

The "supply" of 20-mm guns for ships like USS KIDD came from those used on small craft for ships like patrol craft, where an iron gunsight was adequate for shooting at surface targets. Not, aircraft targets. Even so, the other midships twin 20-mm mounts onboard USS KIDD do have Mk 14 gunsights on the mounts. The two twin 20-mm mounts on the fantail, which the posted photo is of, lack Mk 14 gunsights. Sourcing Mk 14 gunsights is a problem these days. Some of the Mk 14 gunsights seen on museum ships are "outer covers only dummies" that lack functionality.

The Mk 24 twin 20-mm gun mount required power and interface with the host ship, plus a lack of Mk 14 gunsights with a "wet" package, probably was the reason for iron gunsights on submarines.

The "gunsight" on Mk 51 directors, was the same as the Mk 14 gunsight on 20-mm mounts ... because they were the same devices.

by **Fliger747** » Tue Jul 25, 2023 11:39 am

The submarine has of course a single manual Bofors on the aft conning tower deck. Though not suitable for submarine use, I'm surprised that none of the Bofors used something like the MK 14 sight as. backup to director control (MK51).

Nice drawings by the way!

Tom

by **Iceman 29** » Tue Jul 25, 2023 6:00 am

Thanks Rick !

"The twin 20-mm gun mounts used the Mk 10 tripod mount, not the Mk 4 solid mount."

I have the plans now from my friend Alain to draw it:

That's right, i have not draw it yet.

"The Mk 24 mount would have used the Mk 14 electronic gunsight, not the "iron sights"."

It's true, it's usually mounted with the viewfinder presented by Tom.

But there have been duplicates with the classic mount, especially for submarines like the USS Pampanito, but not only. On the other hand, without a screen on the subs, it's not very hydrodynamic under water, and it's certainly noisy.

Using the electrical system on the mount wasn't going to be possible because of the seawater. The guns themselves were dismantled if not used, due to corrosion.

On the other hand, the handlebars are missing and need to be designed too.

An excellent article here with lots of detailed photos, I'm going to integrate some of them into my drawing:

https://maritime.org/pres/20mm/index.php

An Oerlikon Mark 24 on the deck of a Fletcher-class destroyer.

https://wiki.warthunder.com/20_mm/70_Oe ... 2820_mm%29

The 20 mm/70 Oerlikon Mark 24 on the PT-811.

Mark 24 documentation, including :

https://maritime.org/doc/gun20twin/index.php

by **Rick E Davis** » Mon Jul 24, 2023 3:13 pm

I need to point out about the twin 20-mm "Mk 24" mounts a couple of important facts for accuracy. The image of a twin 20-mm mount you posted of the real mount highlights these comments.

The twin 20-mm gun mounts used the Mk 10 tripod mount, not the Mk 4 solid mount.

The Mk 24 mount would have used the Mk 14 electronic gunsight, not the "iron sights".

Otherwise these are beautiful 3-D printed models!!!

by **Iceman 29** » Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:12 am

Tks Tom!

The other two Oerlikon models are printed.

I've modified the barrel itself to fit a 1 mm piano wire, so that it doesn't bend - a common phenomenon with resin. It will also be more robust.

I've also printed the 12 pounder 76 mm in 1/15 scale, a beautiful piece!

I'm planning to make a display case with a few 1/15 marine guns, these two, the 40 mm Bofors. already drawn, and the Hotchkiss 13.2 quadruple. It's going to make a great display.

Bofors 40 mm

Hotchkiss 13.2 mm:

Naval gun 12-pounder QF 12, 76mm, 3-inch:

All that's left to paint, at least mine.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=348628

by **Fliger747** » Fri Jul 21, 2023 2:27 pm

The lead compensating sights added quite a bit of complication model wise including the plate at the front to protect the (what I think) power source for the gyros in the MK 14 sight. (https://www.compasslibrary.com/en-us/pr ... anual-1943) I believe these were like the units on the MK 51 directors, utilizing compressed air to turn the internal gyros. The gyro sensed the lateral rate of change but required a sooth tracking to give a viable solution. The MK 51 also had a range adjustment and I don't know if the MK 14 did or not. Most of the MK 10 singles, such as on my dad's ship, were eventually fitted with the more advanced MK 14 gyro sight.

by **Iceman 29** » Fri Jul 21, 2023 1:48 pm

I made a Twin Oerlikon, quite quickly.

by **Iceman 29** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 3:30 pm

Tks!

I think I'll modify it to make a twin 20 mm.

by **NavyShooter** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 10:13 am

That is magnificent....it puts the thing I uploaded to Thingiverse the other year to shame...

I'm jealous!

Maybe I'll have to revisit my design now and make it a bit better.

NS

by **BB62vet** » Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:04 pm

Pascal,

1) VERY NICE!!!! the printing came out extremely detailed!!

2) Thanks for the resin notation - I'm waiting for a jug of that resin myself!!

Hank

by **Iceman 29** » Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:12 am

Tks Wefalck.
I agree, it would be even better, you have the tools. The best of both worlds.

I used a bit of metal here.

The print is superb.

It gave me the idea of printing all my guns at 1/15 scale to line them up on a display stand, at least the ones that are detailed enough for that. The 12 pound at 1/15 is going to be incredible...

I've printed a Oerlikon prototype that I'm going to keep. There will be few modifications on the next ones for St�phane.

I can't wait to paint it.

I've replaced the loader studs with 0.7 mm piano wire, which is much cleaner.

It can move on 2 axes.

Small Mono X tray!

I used the new Elegoo standard resin V2. (To Hank). Very nice.

The real thing:

by **wefalck** » Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:42 am

As much as I like these 3D-printing endeavours, somehow I like any bare metal to look like bare metal, which is really only achievable by using real metal. My personal choice would be to turn/mill such parts and combine them with the 3D-printed parts.

Looking quite impressive this Oerlikon!

by **Iceman 29** » Tue Jul 11, 2023 4:48 pm

Why?

It prints very well, even better at 1/15 than at 1/33 like this Naval gun 12-pounder QF 12, 76mm, 3-inch...

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=348628&p=1006158#p1006158

by **Iceman 29** » Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:45 pm

It's now finished, I'm going to work out how many pieces I'm going to print it in.

by **Iceman 29** » Tue Jul 11, 2023 10:09 am

It's slowly coming to an end, still a few details to be drawn on the mount, notably the rotation lock.

I've designed a new armored screen for this mount, the arms are longer to fit this mount. The control wheel must be able to pass between the screen and the barrel during rotation.

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