SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

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Expand view Topic review: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by marijn van gils » Mon Jan 15, 2024 10:02 am

Simply fantastic! She turned out beautiful! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

And as always, it was a pleasure to follow the build thread, and very educational. Thank you for sharing Jim! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by Stefano Salesi » Sun Jan 14, 2024 7:59 am

stealing a line from a great movie...

"we are not worthy, we are not worthy...".

simply beautiful.

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by MartinJQuinn » Wed Jan 10, 2024 7:45 pm

Great work making an ugly-duckling of a ship into a beautiful model!

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by Pieter » Tue Jan 09, 2024 3:49 pm

Beautiful model Jim. I hope to see it in real life some day.

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by pascalemod » Tue Jan 09, 2024 1:38 pm

What a cool quirky subject!

Well done on getting this one out so nicely, considering it must have been hard to find good research reference for something so rarely modelled.

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by Iceman 29 » Tue Jan 09, 2024 6:57 am

You've made us love this little ship. :big_grin:

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by SG1 » Tue Jan 09, 2024 2:17 am

M A S T E R P I E C E ! :thumbs_up_1:

PS Love the propeller effect

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by JIM BAUMANN » Mon Jan 08, 2024 5:34 pm

Thansk you gentlemen.

-- herewith a few images from the first photo session; which served well to identify a few minor alterations, a small repair and extra rigging to be added...
then another photo session; new camera debut...!

Small model==> big magnification...==> liberates all the faults !!
news shortly
=======================================================

There is already another new model on the slipway....
cheers
Jim B
Attachments
Sagamore 01.jpg
Sagamore 02.jpg
Sagamore 06.jpg
Sagamore 15.JPG
Sagamore 12.jpg
Sagamore 08.jpg

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by Iceman 29 » Wed Jan 03, 2024 2:43 pm

Well done Jim, you've really succeeded with this original ship. The ship's wake is perfect. :thumbs_up_1:

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by Rui Matos » Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:10 am

Hi Jim

Well... it looks perfect (as usual with your works)!
:)

Congrats and... what's next??
Cheers
Rui

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by JIM BAUMANN » Sat Dec 30, 2023 2:33 pm

@bigtodd :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

Sagamore was different to most of the US whalebacks in that her machinery was much further forward and she was designed to be a seagoing vessel,( England to the Black Sea ) was designed as self-unloading-- hence the large number of masts and profusion of cargo booms.

====================================================================
Anyhow.... this is the last update before 'final-model-images' will be posted here and a ' full' gallery shoot

The chain fwd for the 2 x anchors passed through the bow eyes acting as fairleads ( hence the outer two were larger )

ALL PE chain I had -even the very smallest looked --- large and over-scale

So I tried the David Griffith method of plaiting wire to make an imitation of chain. It looked very good for a large chain/ large ship but even using the thinnest wire would not pass though my bow-eyes
Hence I twisted just two strands of slightly thicker wire-- in situ on the ship, painted and highlighted it looked pretty good ( on the model I used a tighter / shorter twist than in the photo below )
P1020523.jpg
I could not avoid the problem any longer--and started the process of raising the water-level in 4 layers.
I used for the first coat a lower density faster drying structural gel
in the image it looks like the ship has stranded on a white beach... ! .? :big_grin:
P1020526.jpg
Once the water-levels had dried ( 2 weeks !) the first coats of paint went on.....
aiming at a shade and hue suitable for the grey -green of the coastal waters of England,
adding coats wet-on-wet of differing and lightening shades
P1020535.jpg
Thereafter I added a few sparse figures, the main hull deck being an untenable location at sea, and I made a start on the the rigging --this was done--as ever using stretched sprue.
( using my tried an tested methods
as here viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37536 )

In itself the rigging was not that complex or difficult, but because was not much of it, there is no hiding place and it needed to look even more like the real thing!
This meant a lot of gazing at often fuzzy old images to try and ascertain
what all the ' string ' actually did ; and where is started and where it finished !
P1020536.jpg
P1020537.jpg
>>> ....When Sagamore was built in 1893 for the original ship-owners William Johnston and Co of Liverpool,
Sagamore's unorthodox design prevented her from being given a classification and load line for registration in the United Kingdom. ( :scratch: :scratch: )

Therefore Johnston's and Doxford's ( the ship-builders) created a jointly-owned subsidiary to own her, Belgian American Maritime Company SA, and registered her in Antwerp.
In 1897 Johnston's transferred Sagamore to the Belgian Marine Trading Company. She remained registered in Antwerp.....<<<

I had naturally ( but wrongly! ) assumed that the ship would nonetheless carry a Red Ensign ( British merchant fleets)

The only image where the flags were discernible as a guide for flags I had was this image below
( taken with orthochromatic film- hence the distorted colour values)
Liv Maritime SAG 2.jpg
Liv Maritime SAG 2.jpg
In images I found on the 'net , the deep golden yellow of the Belgian flags...when on a ship with back-light and 700 x smaller faded somewhat!...

So I used a faded yellow post it note to make numerous Belgian flags...
P1020560.jpg
from which I could narrow down my choice
P1020563.jpg
The house flag was harder to find online-- but persistence and e-bay (! ) produced a result
zzzzz-zhouseflag.jpg
This was made of thin paper, drawn and painted with coloured aquarell pencils
The lettering eluded me -- but small dabs of white gave an impression thereof
P1020570.jpg
Once the flags were attached to their halyards, I finished off the seacsape, added a propeller blade
( visible as the ship is running light ,in a gentle swell en-route to another port to load the next cargo...

I checked carefully over the model for dust particles and errant hairs etc,
and then sprayed it with matt Winsor and Newton Galeria varnish


the images below were pre-varnish --

P1020580.jpg
Attachments
P1020575.jpg
P1020577.jpg
P1020571.jpg
P1020572.jpg
P1020578.jpg
P1020574.jpg

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by bigtodd » Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:29 pm

Wow great thread. The crazy thing is I just watched this video on the history of the whale back boats.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OPbf3_cZQ ... FjayBzaGlw

So to follow this is great.

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by JIM BAUMANN » Thu Dec 28, 2023 6:21 pm

WoW !-- I think that answers all my queries ref the wake pattern of a whaleback .!
I will endeavour to interpret the information to my model's base!

I will post my progress; thanks EJ ! :thumbs_up_1:

Jim Baumann :wave_1:

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by EJFoeth » Thu Dec 28, 2023 7:01 am

Question on waves from Jim :) Does the wave pattern follow the usual rules?
meteor-underweigh.jpg
The most important parameter for ship wave systems is Froude's number, or, Fn = speed / sqrt(g*shiplength), ending up around Fn = 0.12 for the Meteor at 8-9 knots. At this range the waves are typically very small with diverging waves from the bow/shoulders (people tend to focus on the exact bow, but the shoulders a bit back may contribute to these waves). Around Fn =0.15 the waves should become more noticeable with the 'dip' in the wave pattern near the fwd shoulder deepening, the more so if the hull is quite full forward. At Fn =0.15, when the ship is very full a transverse wave is often seen travels along the hull and they may not go much faster at all (submarines at the surface shows this wave really well). On that one image of Meteor above I see only a very mild diverging wave though, and, if it could go up to 15 knots that's Fn = 0.225 or typically merchant ship speeds that are not very full.
Hood_earth_12.jpg
I added this pic of HMS Hood as I happened to have that one calculated (if I had taught myself how to make a 3D hull quickly I could run the Meteor through the same program, but alas). This is at a ship speed of 12 knots, which is the same Froude number. This is very very slow in terms of waves. Note to undulating pattern of wave crests and troughs with a mild transverse wave in the wake. For deep water a wave length of a wave running along the hull is V = sqrt(g*wavelength/ (2*pi), or, about wavelength=24,4 m/s at 12 knots, and I count about 10-ish waves along the hull; you should expect the same number for Meteor at 8 kn. Which seems to be roughly the same number as the B&W image (coincidence maybe?). In both the photograph and the figure you notice that the diverging waves move away from the hull and no waves are really visible near the aft hull until you reach the stern. So it appears the wave patterns are roughly similar.

You'll also notice a frothy trail from where the bow waves are breaking and that foam is transported along the hull (that is, it is deposited on the water surface and stays there) while the ship moves on. Between the foam and the diverging waves there are all kinds on tiny waves; these do not even show up in the calculation and are visible only on calm surfaces. I'm not sure what causes these small waves though---fortunately my speciality is not ship waves---but I tend to notice them more often... as below from my "wave collection":
randomgkv.jpg
Note that these diverging wave patterns are always contained between an angle of 39 degrees, if the water depth is large. But, the angle starts to increase as the water depth decreases and when sailing in channels (angle up to 90 degrees is possible... briefly). So you can deviate from that angle and if anyone makes a comment on a too wide angle attribute that to shallow water effects. :smallsmile:

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by wefalck » Thu Dec 21, 2023 3:49 am

Good that I am not in Jim's workshop - I would suck in his models and bits pieces, by my gaping deep breath ...

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by anyahajobuzi » Wed Dec 20, 2023 9:13 pm

That is some excellent scratch-building skills, Jim. I think you however made a mistake when stated the scale: meant to say: 1/5000??
:eyes_spinning:

700... That's a different animal, requiring some very different mindset and tools. And a set of eyes! Very amazing "to scale" weathering!
Beautiful job!

Cheers: Laci

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by Joe Simon » Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:59 pm

Outstanding work Jim!

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by Rui Matos » Tue Dec 19, 2023 10:19 am

JIM BAUMANN wrote:sometimes you just cannot believe your luck....

idly surfing the internet for " just -please-one-only more " image of the SS Sagamore,...

and this Gem turned up--never seen or found it before! what a result ! :big_grin:
You were NOT lucky, Jim... it only shows that you are a tenacious ship modeller ;)

This built, as usual, is a lesson on how to think out of the box in order to solve problems/ faults/ issues...
Highly educative and fun to watch!

Cheers,
Rui

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by JIM BAUMANN » Mon Dec 18, 2023 3:46 pm

sometimes you just cannot believe your luck....

idly surfing the internet for " just -please-one-only more " image of the SS Sagamore,...

and this Gem turned up--never seen or found it before! what a result ! :big_grin:
from this post/ blog
http://solwaypastandpresent.blogspot.co ... -just.html
very interesting--...
but what an image !!
0VHH87lLPffklfCo.jpg
and whist idly looking further...

this from an old book... same dock, same time-but a different angle...
sagamore silloth dock.jpg
It confirms so much--and also clarifies small details that I still need to add!

Happy Monday !
Jim Baumann

Re: SS Sagamore 1893 whaleback 1/700 scratch-build

by hypno7 » Sun Dec 17, 2023 10:24 am

The attention to detail is as always very impressive. As Pieter said, it does look alive.

Looking forward to the next updates! :wave_1:

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