The Ship Model Forum

by **Jimmy Conway** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:57 am

Hi all!
See thread "DOING CANVAS COVER", from ARH...........
I think it will work for blast bags..........

by **Guest** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:07 pm

Rodders wrote:

Are Blast Bags really Blast Bags?

Surely the point of protection against blast is to protect the turret crew from the blast of their guns and any superfiring guns. This would require an inflexible medium. As the "Blast Bags" are flexible and move with the firing of the gun, or a superfiring gun I think these items are a form of weatherproofing to keep water out of the turret.
Of course, any retired large gun man out there may disagree.
Interesting though, eh?

Blast bags are not really "blast" bags. The internal mantlet of naval gun turrets is what keep out the actual blast of the guns. The blast bag is mainly there to keep out the water.

by **Navy2000** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:31 pm

I will have to try this on my 1/96 scale Wisconsin when I get there.

Duane

by **Guest** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:52 pm

I am in the process of doing the very same thing for my 1/350 Yamato. I cut the profile of the blast bag out of thin sheet of styrene (0.5mm thick) in two parts. One part goes above the barrel and one below. I glued the styrene in place as a sort of template to sculpt the putty so when I am done, the blast bag has the right droop and sag. It works well.

by **Pieter** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:13 pm

They are real blast bags. "Blast" is a series of shockwaves caused by the shell and the cartridge gases coming out of the gun at a speed higher than the speed of sound. Shockwaves are damaging to humans not so much by the amount of energy they impart on their subject but by doing so in a very short period of time. The strong canvas of the blast bags converts a small part of this energy into heat and it stretches the energy transmission of the rest out in time.

by **Rodders** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:23 am

Are Blast Bags really Blast Bags?

Surely the point of protection against blast is to protect the turret crew from the blast of their guns and any superfiring guns. This would require an inflexible medium. As the "Blast Bags" are flexible and move with the firing of the gun, or a superfiring gun I think these items are a form of weatherproofing to keep water out of the turret.
Of course, any retired large gun man out there may disagree.
Interesting though, eh?

by **bucketfoot-al** » Wed May 09, 2007 8:33 pm

roy allen wrote:dont forget to post some shots at 1/200 scale they should look great,
if you had wanted a fixed gun setup the other option would be dress makers pattern tissue soaked in a 50/50 mix of water/pva glue
Forgot to say, use dry light grey artists pastels on the bags with a touch of white on high points. you'll swear the things are real

Roy

Don't worry Roy, I will. Incidentally, GPM out of Poland offers not only the 39 main and secondary Yamato guns in METAL for $12 USD (which I have already mounted), but also an incredibly detailed photoetch set of 6 .25 cal machine guns - I just ordered 9 sets - enough to outfit the entire ship.

Here are the links:

http://www.gpm.pl/eng/index.php?akcja=p ... edycja=576

http://www.gpm.pl/eng/index.php?akcja=p ... edycja=109

They have many other scales and ships metal barrels and photoetch sets. Its the best ship-detailing deal on the Internet!!!!!

by **roy allen** » Wed May 09, 2007 3:40 pm

dont forget to post some shots at 1/200 scale they should look great,
if you had wanted a fixed gun setup the other option would be dress makers pattern tissue soaked in a 50/50 mix of water/pva glue
Forgot to say, use dry light grey artists pastels on the bags with a touch of white on high points. you'll swear the things are real

Roy

by **DeadByCheese** » Wed May 09, 2007 2:38 pm

I have seen cloth blast bags and had no idea how to do it.

by **bucketfoot-al** » Wed May 09, 2007 2:19 pm

roy allen wrote:The cloth your after for this is ladies pure cotton hankies, the large male one's are too thick. The older and more washed they are the better. Cut to shape but over size to give you plenty spare. Next make a small wire frame that sits over the turret gun entry port, attach the frame to the cotton sheet at the rear and gently slide over the barrel, use tiny amounts of super glue at all times and go slow. If you wish you can also make a small ring for the front of the bag.
Hope this helps

Roy

Roy you are a genius! I was wondering how to get the 'blast covers' into the correct shape. A loose frame will do the job while allowing the guns to still move up and down!

Thank you Roy and everybody!!

by **roy allen** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:12 am

The cloth your after for this is ladies pure cotton hankies, the large male one's are too thick. The older and more washed they are the better. Cut to shape but over size to give you plenty spare. Next make a small wire frame that sits over the turret gun entry port, attach the frame to the cotton sheet at the rear and gently slide over the barrel, use tiny amounts of super glue at all times and go slow. If you wish you can also make a small ring for the front of the bag.
Hope this helps

Roy

by **bucketfoot-al** » Wed May 09, 2007 2:14 am

ArizonaBB39 wrote:
DeadByCheese wrote:Use Canvas?

I actually just had a wild idea. I don't know if this would work or not, but I'll try to explain...

Don't shrug off using canvas or some other type of cloth just yet. My idea is this:

Find a fabric that is the correct color or can be dyed to such or is to your liking. Cut three squares (I don't know, about 2cm by 2 cm??) and punch a hole for the barrel in the middle of the fabric. Slide the fabric down the barrel until it is in the correct place on the barrel itself and fasten it somehow (super glue??). Next, push the remaining cloth into the gun turret and fasten just the edges of the cloth to the inside of the opening of the turret where the barrel sticks out, once dry push the cloth back out of the opening and maybe you will have a realistic looking blast bag and have both a blast bag and barrel that can move!

I have no idea if that made any sense, or if it will work, but, like I said, it was just a wild idea I had. At this scale it might just work...

You know stuffing the edges of the cloth inside the turret opening (except at the top where it has to cover the blast support hatch just might work.

Finding the right fabric will take a little recon, but as I said, its low priority right now.

However, I think your idea is a 'winner'.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

by **ArizonaBB39** » Wed May 09, 2007 1:20 am

DeadByCheese wrote:Use Canvas?

I actually just had a wild idea. I don't know if this would work or not, but I'll try to explain...

Don't shrug off using canvas or some other type of cloth just yet. My idea is this:

Find a fabric that is the correct color or can be dyed to such or is to your liking. Cut three squares (I don't know, about 2cm by 2 cm??) and punch a hole for the barrel in the middle of the fabric. Slide the fabric down the barrel until it is in the correct place on the barrel itself and fasten it somehow (super glue??). Next, push the remaining cloth into the gun turret and fasten just the edges of the cloth to the inside of the opening of the turret where the barrel sticks out, once dry push the cloth back out of the opening and maybe you will have a realistic looking blast bag and have both a blast bag and barrel that can move!

I have no idea if that made any sense, or if it will work, but, like I said, it was just a wild idea I had. At this scale it might just work...

by **bucketfoot-al** » Tue May 08, 2007 9:47 pm

ingura wrote:I'm pretty sure you thought about sculping them with epoxy-putty. This would be my choice.

Another idea is the thin aluminium sheetmetal one uses in the kitchen. It worked pretty good on my lifeboats, though they were 1/100 scale. Anyway - I took a napkin size piece of this, formed a ball and unfolded again to get a "used" texture. After that it was brought into shape and glued on the item with epoxi.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions!

I won't use epoxy putty because that would prevent the barrels from being moved up and down (which they do on the huge Nichimo kit) - and I like to adjust things once in a while just to keep it interesting

The aluminum foil is an interesting concept, and one that I can test and work on before actually mounting it on the barrels. Might have the same problem as with the epoxy putty though.

Whatever I eventually use will have to be flexible (ideally some kind of fabric but going on a crusade looking for it is for later. First I have a ship to finish....

by **Jason M.** » Tue May 08, 2007 8:35 pm

There are many techniques out there, but I prefer a putty called "Green Stuff" You mix the two together, till its green. Then, you mold it however you want, and it dries very slowly so you have plenty of time to do with it what you will. It's very easy to work with, and not messy:

http://www.thewarstore.com/product18832.html

Here is an example of a result:

by **ingura** » Tue May 08, 2007 4:18 pm

I'm pretty sure you thought about sculping them with epoxy-putty. This would be my choice.

Another idea is the thin aluminium sheetmetal one uses in the kitchen. It worked pretty good on my lifeboats, though they were 1/100 scale. Anyway - I took a napkin size piece of this, formed a ball and unfolded again to get a "used" texture. After that it was brought into shape and glued on the item with epoxi.

by **ArizonaBB39** » Tue May 08, 2007 4:15 pm

bucketfoot-al wrote:
DeadByCheese wrote:Use Canvas?

Lol, no idea.
Boy, between that anchor thread and this one all the comedians are coming out of the woodwork. Would have preferred not to be pinged to a pointless (non) reply to my question, if you don't mind.

If you want to see Yamato Ten-Go 'museum' accuracy in 1/200 scale, just wait til I'm finished dude....

First, chill out

Second, for blast bags I've used putty, that I sculpt into the shape desired, other methods I've tried are using white glue and aluminum foil, the white glue you have to build up in layers and takes time, I couldn't get anything looking good with the aluminum foil, but perhaps in a larger scale you might have better luck.

Examples of the putty method:
Putty Blast Bags
Putty Blast Bags 2
Putty Blast Bags 3

by **bucketfoot-al** » Tue May 08, 2007 3:51 pm

DeadByCheese wrote:Use Canvas?

Lol, no idea.

Boy, between that anchor thread and this one all the comedians are coming out of the woodwork. Would have preferred not to be pinged to a pointless (non) reply to my question, if you don't mind.

by **DeadByCheese** » Tue May 08, 2007 3:16 pm

Use Canvas?

Lol, no idea.

by **bucketfoot-al** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:07 pm

Hi Gang. Yet another question from a newbie as far as ships go - while my customization of my Nichimo 1/200 Yamato proceeds apace (you will really like what I've done so far - will post links soon), one thing has me stumped;

How do I make believable canvas blast-guards for the 9 main and 6 secondary gun batteries?

HELP!

Thanks!!

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