The Ship Model Forum

[quote="Jefgte"]Avery wrote:

"...Surcouf was on patrol"


As I know, she was not on patrol but en route for the Pacific (via Panama) to operate with USN.



Jef :thumbs_up_1:[/quote]

Yes, Jef, you caught me :thumbs_up_1: She was indeed on her way to the Pacific via Panama when she dissapeared..

[quote="Jean-Paul Binot"][quote="Tiornu"]The collision between Surcouf and Thompson Lykes is very well documented. I'm not sure where there's room for mystery. This is one of those cases where the truth is simply too boring for some folks.[/quote]

Actually, there is definitely room for controversy. True, Thompson Lykes collided with something, but the damage to her bow was very light, and quite unlikely to have been the consequence of ramming a ship as large as Surcouf, nearly as large as the cargo herself. Both ships' bridges were at the same level, while the "thing" rammed by Thompson Lykes was very low on the water and the collision did not even slow her down much. By comparison, damage done to the bow of a RN destroyer or corvette ramming a U-Boot was often quite spectacular.

A much more likely explanation for the loss of Surcouf is "friendly fire", i.e. the attack by US planes. Three more French submarines were sunk in the same way during the war, and at least one US sub too (USS Dorado SS-248).

If true, it is very sad for this unique ship and her gallant crew to have been lost to trigger happy American aircrews�[/quote]

Actually that is quite correct the incident between Thompson and Sucouf is well documented..But in hindsight it may have been another vessel involved..however highly doubtful. As for "trigger happy American aircrews".. umm... Maybe we should not judge them so harshly eh??? Otherwise your post may have been in German :big_grin: .
BTW And any vessel in the high security areas like Panama not using a IFF transponder by 1942 especially a submarine of unfamilar design or operating in an area that no "friendlys" were supposed to be in were usually targets. She did look very similar to a German "Milk Cow"...
Many rumors about her demise but The ramming is still the most crediable.
.

[quote="Tiornu"]The collision between Surcouf and Thompson Lykes is very well documented. I'm not sure where there's room for mystery. This is one of those cases where the truth is simply too boring for some folks.[/quote]

Actually, there is definitely room for controversy. True, Thompson Lykes collided with something, but the damage to her bow was very light, and quite unlikely to have been the consequence of ramming a ship as large as Surcouf, nearly as large as the cargo herself. Both ships' bridges were at the same level, while the "thing" rammed by Thompson Lykes was very low on the water and the collision did not even slow her down much. By comparison, damage done to the bow of a RN destroyer or corvette ramming a U-Boot was often quite spectacular.

A much more likely explanation for the loss of Surcouf is "friendly fire", i.e. the attack by US planes. Three more French submarines were sunk in the same way during the war, and at least one US sub too (USS Dorado SS-248).

If true, it is very sad for this unique ship and her gallant crew to have been lost to trigger happy American aircrews�

Remember that Heller Surcouf kit that went on ebay for over 1000 pounds sterling a while back? I think it's an interesting sub and it's probably a nice kit with good box art, but my LHS has one or two on the shelf for around $40 (re-issues, but exactly the same).

I can't but help think that that person is still in the throws of buyer's remorse.

Avery wrote:

"...Surcouf was on patrol"


As I know, she was not on patrol but en route for the Pacific (via Panama) to operate with USN.



Jef :thumbs_up_1:

The collision between Surcouf and Thompson Lykes is very well documented. I'm not sure where there's room for mystery. This is one of those cases where the truth is simply too boring for some folks.

Soucouf looks like something that could only come out of a James Bond movie.

Tracy White post a link to a Wikipedia article about the submarine Surcouf. I was facinated by the whole story, the sinking of american tankers while Surcouf was on patrol, and her eventual demise at the hands of an american merchant ship or submarines. What is everyone's opinion on this story? I believe she was sunk by accident, by what ever means.

Here's a link to the story:

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_submarine_Surcouf[/url]