Calling all British Nuclear Submarine fans

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Expand view Topic review: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine fans

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by Maarten Sch�nfeld » Fri Jan 26, 2024 8:10 am

Georgi Grigorov wrote:The problem in this situation is that the pumpjet at Trafalgar and Swiftsure looks different... and I have doubts that it remained on the ship after the tests... on the other hand, nothing prevents us from adding an optional part for those who want it :) But that will be later, now I wonder how and if we will be able to make a kit that has an option for Swiftsur and the other ships in the class. In the main ship, the rudders are of a different shape, in the rest of the class, the pumpjet is attached to the rudder. The other thing that bothers me is Trafalgar - at best only 4 of the ships (and not all the time) looked the same. Most likely in our new model it will show the last 4 at the beginning of their service. Because later on with the addition of the acoustic decoy launchers they start to differ.
Hi Georgi,

Quote: '...that the pumpjet at Trafalgar and Swiftsure looks different...' I really wonder how do you know that? And if you have any sources, to what extent they were different? Do you happen to have any pictures that support this 'difference'?

Further you mention 'the pumpjet is attached to the rudder.' Are you sure? Are we talking then about a Z-drive or Rudder Propeller? That would then be a very early application of this technique and makes me wonder why it wasn't applied to the Swiftsures and Trafalgars.

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by Kagou » Fri Jan 26, 2024 6:25 am

Georgi Grigorov wrote:The problem in this situation is that the pumpjet at Trafalgar and Swiftsure looks different... and I have doubts that it remained on the ship after the tests... on the other hand, nothing prevents us from adding an optional part for those who want it :) But that will be later, now I wonder how and if we will be able to make a kit that has an option for Swiftsur and the other ships in the class. In the main ship, the rudders are of a different shape, in the rest of the class, the pumpjet is attached to the rudder. The other thing that bothers me is Trafalgar - at best only 4 of the ships (and not all the time) looked the same. Most likely in our new model it will show the last 4 at the beginning of their service. Because later on with the addition of the acoustic decoy launchers they start to differ.

The problem is not the situation of the pumpjet, the main problem is that we pay for orders and we receive nothing and behind it there is silence.

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by Georgi Grigorov » Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:12 pm

The problem in this situation is that the pumpjet at Trafalgar and Swiftsure looks different... and I have doubts that it remained on the ship after the tests... on the other hand, nothing prevents us from adding an optional part for those who want it :) But that will be later, now I wonder how and if we will be able to make a kit that has an option for Swiftsur and the other ships in the class. In the main ship, the rudders are of a different shape, in the rest of the class, the pumpjet is attached to the rudder. The other thing that bothers me is Trafalgar - at best only 4 of the ships (and not all the time) looked the same. Most likely in our new model it will show the last 4 at the beginning of their service. Because later on with the addition of the acoustic decoy launchers they start to differ.

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by Maarten Sch�nfeld » Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:39 pm

Georgi Grigorov wrote:Until new information about Churchill, I will continue with Swiftsure and Trafalgar work. Unfortunately, due to the shape of the Swiftsure pumpjet, it will not be possible to offer both options in one kit.
Hi Georgi,

As the Churchill was the testbed for the pumpjet on the Swiftsure class, I would make the safe guess that that a Swiftsure/Trafalgar pumpjet on the Churchill hull would be very close to what it must have looked like. Anything else would be a wild guess.

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by Georgi Grigorov » Fri Aug 26, 2022 1:00 pm

Maarten Sch�nfeld wrote:Hi Georgi,
I don't share your analysis: there are clearly three hulls of the Valiant/Churchill class present. See the yellow arrows. The other eight are indeed Swiftsure/Trafalgar types.
I agree with you. Apparently I was admiring too much that the outlines of the pumjets are visible so well.
Until new information about Churchill, I will continue with Swiftsure and Trafalgar work. Unfortunately, due to the shape of the Swiftsure pumpjet, it will not be possible to offer both options in one kit.

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by Maarten Sch�nfeld » Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:00 am

Hi Georgi,

Thanks for the info on the fifth torpedo tube, I didn't know that.
I'm afraid there are no published (or leaked) photos of a pumpjet on any of the Churchills, apparently these were highly classified at the time and never released since then. I guess it will take many years before these will appear but one never knows.

I just checked Google Earth on the status of the dockyard in Devonport. I don't share your analysis: there are clearly three hulls of the Valiant/Churchill class present. See the yellow arrows. The other eight are indeed Swiftsure/Trafalgar types.
devonport 2022.jpg
A few years ago this basin looked like this: the boat laying by itself is Courageous.
Annotation 2020-07-29 145723-1.jpg
Annotation 2020-07-29 145723-1.jpg (37.28 KiB) Viewed 5172 times
The fourth Churchill is at the Rosyth dockyard:
rosyth 2022.jpg
The the right (smaller) one is Dreadnought. So there is one missing of the five: probably that's Courageous, being moored at a different location as an exhibit in the Devonport Heritage Museum. I couldn't find her in Google earth though, maybe she's undergoing maintenance or modifications at various locations (not spotted by spying satellites...)
I hope you see the differences with the Swiftsures? The tails of the boats are more slender, and when you look closely you can see the attachment of the forward dive planes on the foredeck, which is not there on the Swiftsure/Trafalgars.

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by Georgi Grigorov » Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:35 pm

Hello, first I will answer the question from a few pages ago - what is the function of the fifth torpedo tube. Friedman writes that as early as Swiftsure, he was seen only for decoys. And now let me ask - did a photo of a pump jet tested on Churchill appear by chance? I'm currently researching Swiftsure and Trafalgar, but in the chapter for the former it was mentioned that the pump jet was tested on Churchill first. I also came across information that Trafalgar was also re-equipped with a pump jet.
By the way, where is Churchill now? The satellite image of Devonport shows (and very clearly) only 6 Swiftsures and 5 Trafalgars.

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by ssn705 » Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:22 pm

Happy to help. Of course it helps that I have a RN submariner a couple offices over.

Dave

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by Tracy White » Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:17 pm

I can work with that, thanks! The kit comes with two open doors and what I usually like to do is one tube capped and another with the missile maybe about half way out (generally just sitting on a spring of convenient size for fun) The white and silver should add a bit of color to an otherwise black hole.

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by ssn705 » Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:58 pm

OK, from the horse's mouth so to speak...

Everything outside the tube is black... flat black... outside of the tube, top of the lid, back of the hatch, hull around the tube, back side of the casing...all flat black.

Inside the tube... the diaphragm over the missile is flat white, back side of the lid is flat white, the seating surface of the lid and tube is silver (bare metal) and the inside edge of the seating surface of the tube has a thin black ring (maybe a hard rubber gasket)

Just ask if I need to clarify.

Dave

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by Tracy White » Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:03 am

Again, appreciated!

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by ssn705 » Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:06 pm

Tracy,
My coworker is on travel. As soon as he is back, I'll ask him the question. He was an XO on Vanguard so he should remember.

Dave

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by Tracy White » Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:26 pm

Much appreciated!

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by ssn705 » Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:44 pm

Tracy White wrote:
ssn705 wrote:Maybe I can convince him to do some Akula screws too.
I'm down for sets for two boats if so! :thumbs_up_1:


Also, since we have some action on this thread and it's been about since I last asked, does anyone know what color the interior or the turtle back and missile doors would be on Vanguard class boomers? I could use USN Tridents as an example, I guess but am hoping someone knows of a photo or description of the colors.

I'll ask a friend at work who should know from personal experience.

Dave

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by Tracy White » Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:21 pm

ssn705 wrote:Maybe I can convince him to do some Akula screws too.
I'm down for sets for two boats if so! :thumbs_up_1:


Also, since we have some action on this thread and it's been about since I last asked, does anyone know what color the interior or the turtle back and missile doors would be on Vanguard class boomers? I could use USN Tridents as an example, I guess but am hoping someone knows of a photo or description of the colors.

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by ssn705 » Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:27 pm

Guess I'll be ordering another set from Mike...my MIKE screws just showed up today. Maybe I can convince him to do some Akula screws too.

Dave

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by Maarten Sch�nfeld » Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:44 pm

The petal blade (non skewed/scythe) propeller was only used during trials, never operationally. Same as the petal five bladers on the USN Skipjacks and George Washington class boomers.

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by Woodstock74 » Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:26 pm

ssn705 wrote:I guess I missed his 7 blade version and only saw his 9. Thanks for the info.

Dave
I ended up doing 3 versions:

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Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by ssn705 » Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:25 am

I guess I missed his 7 blade version and only saw his 9. Thanks for the info.

Dave

Re: Calling all British Nuclear Submarine Fans

by Maarten Sch�nfeld » Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:12 am

ssn705 wrote:Maarten, Thanks for the info. What did you do for your prop then...wrangle the kit bits? Was the towed array internally showed then, or was it just an attachment point for a clip-on? Dave
Hi Dave! The model you saw in the post was a kitbash of the old MikroMir HMS Resolution boomer kit: taken out a considerable part of the hull, new casing and sail, new diving planes fore and aft. When I had worked out all that I helped MikroMir to issue a new kit of the Conqueror. I stll haven't seen that kit in the flesh myself... :heh:

I assume the kit prop is not very much, only a PE thingy. However, Woodstock74 was so kind to draft and print the propeller in 3D, both the 7 and the 9 blade versions. So please refer to him for that!
As for the towed array: the left tip of the aft dive plane was modified with a tube extension, very similar to the Airfix Trafalgar kit, I used that as an example. I must have an actual picture of this towed array on HMS Valiant, but cannot find it now. All Valiants/Churchills received the towed array at some time around 1980-1985. Here you see what it looked like before the paint went on (the prop was a Los Angeles class as a stand-in...)
Courageous Image19.jpg

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