The Ship Model Forum

Pat,

Thanks for all you have done.

Bryan

Pat,

I'm sorry to hear about your 1:200 scale chain problems, but completely understand - product quality comes before anything else. At least, you've recognized the problem and are acting on it. Some manufacturer's would let it pass and care less.

Thanks for the GMP on your chain! Maybe you'll find a solution in the near future and be able to remarket it.

Hank

I am pulling the plug on the 1:200 chain.

The quality of this chain, which has to be printed below Shapeway's minimum recommended dimension, is just too inconsistent. Sometimes (rarely), it's perfect... sometimes it comes in "welded" together, and I need to spend half an hour on a 45" length of chain breaking all the itty links free. No I won't let you do that, because sometimes they really break... and how will I handle that?
And sometimes the chain comes in with "flash", which occurs when the techs don't keep up with "print head hygiene", and which causes the chain to be a total loss. And for all of this, I have no recourse-- I have to accept the prints "as is" for them to print "undersize".

I will continue to offer the larger sizes for large scale models, that stuff works very well.

Thanks to everyone and their patience as I worked through this. Maybe we'll find another solution in the future...

[u][b]Matthew�s Anchor Chain � Test with TransTint Black Dye[/b][/u]

As promised (finally!) I tested a small strip of sprue from the Matthew�s Chain Stopper in a mixing cup using TransTint Black (#6023) at full strength (no dilution) with the following results:

With less than 30 secs tinting time, the strip was completely coated and dyed uniformly with a flat black finish. In less than 5 minutes it was dry to handle.

I am fully convinced that this will work with the entire Matthew�s anchor chain and chain stopper assembly and give a permanent flat dye to these products. I will use this on my model and when ready, I will post photos of the finished chains/stopper assemblies. When I do the dying of the chains/stoppers, I intend to leave the parts in the dye a bit longer, since there are various surfaces of each part to cover, and will move them around to ensure a complete coverage of the parts with the dye.

Whether or not this will work by diluting the TransTint dye, I can�t say � I don�t intend to do that since using it full strength gives me the results I was hoping to get. It is a bit pricey for the amount you will use, but you may have further uses for it on other projects.

This product is available online (Amazon.com) and Klingspor Woodworking Shop. (I bought mine at a local Klingspor shop). It may be available elsewhere, but these two vendors are known to me. The full info on this product is:

[b]TransTint Black Wood Dye #6023[/b] � 2 oz. bottle � retail price $17.95. Since this is a dye � USE WITH CARE � IT�S BLACK, IT�S HARD TO REMOVE FROM SURFACES � DON�T GET ANY ON YOU!!!

I tried uploading a picture of the dye sprue next to the stopper chain sprue it came from but without success.

Pat,

I think maybe I got the wrong impression re. acrylics from earlier comments. I agree w/what you said about paint build up, esp. on chains. I will test out the dye next week. I can tell you one thing - it is a D-Y-E - it takes forever to get off your fingers if you get it on them - I use gloves when working with it. I'll post the results once I've seen how it turns out.

Hank

Hank- Not sure what you mean by so-so for (water based) acrylics... they adhere and cure just fine on this material. But any time you paint chain (even metal chain), getting everything covered, and then excessive paint build up, become headaches.

Fine Art Models' proprietor told me his builders were using printer's ink instead of paint to minimize the thickness and preserve model details. So depending on your dye, it might work... I'll be watching!

Re. painting the parts, etc. -

I'm wondering if possible an ebony or black dye might not work with this material. I have a small vial of ebony dye (can't recall the brand, but it may be RIT) and I'm going to cut a couple pieces of the waste sprue off and see what happens with immersing in this dye. Can't hurt, right I mean given the fact that enamels won't work and acrylics work only so-so?

Hank

Great! Thx for the feedback.

The parts are clean as delivered, but you can always do more. Even if they don't free up, they are already biased left & right to hook across the anchor chains like the real thing.

Pat

Stoppers arrived yesterday. Simply beautiful works of art!!

3 runs through the ultrasonic cleaner using Bestine and then the Baking powder blasting and these things actually can move around. At this size you need to be a neurosurgeon to assemble extra links as I need to do.

I am HAPPY!!!!!


Bob

OK, I've added a small quantity of 1:200 Iowa class chain stoppers on the ebay listing.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=301173646591

These are very delicate and tiny, so I can't offer any assurance that they'll be easy to assemble!
I suggest laying the hooks onto the chain links first, then drill 1mm holes for the padeye pins.


[img]https://matthewsmodelmarine.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/securedownload.jpg?w=765[/img]

[img]https://matthewsmodelmarine.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/20140712_141012a.jpg?w=652[/img]

[img]https://matthewsmodelmarine.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/20140712_141027a.jpg?w=780[/img]

The smallest one they sell would convert to 25 inches long in 1:200, making them about 140% the size of those on Iowa class.
Dollar bill is 6 inches, in that form let's call it 5, the chainlink looked to be about 18 inches long
[img]http://i60.tinypic.com/2564ig9.jpg[/img]

[quote="Channell"]I just got some 3d printed plastic chain from Floating Drydock last week.

http://www.floatingdrydock.com/more.htm#CHAIN

PCM-C115 is very close to the correct size and looks great. You'll need 2 for the 'Mo as they aren't quite long enough for both chains. I have 2 more on backorder too, so apparently they are currently out of them. I can take some pics of them on the kit deck for you later tonight if you'd like...[/quote]

BB62vet

Avoid Aluminum oxide at all costs. The paper mask in included is useless. Inhalation of Aluminum oxide can cause Silicosis ( cement in your lungs )
Use a cartridge type paint mask.

Harbor Freight has a Paasche air eraser clone for around $25. But it has Aluminum Oxided included. It is 220 grit and will etch glass and destroy 3D printed parts. I know.. I tried it and the Oxide ate up the part.

The harbor freight clone has a .020" orifice and the paasch 1 quart kit is .035". It is designed for more aggressive grit. I spoke to passch about this.

The clogging Pat mentioned is remedied by sifting the baking powder through a metal mesh coffee filter. It gets the chunks out. Besides... baking powder is really cheap at the grocery store.

I have experimented with this baking powder on Pat's 13.5 LPI chain and it worked beautifully. I did make a screen holder so I could lay down the chain and blast away. I cut a small mailing tube in half, lengthwise, and hot glued a piece of plastic door screen so that it sags a little and it provides great results. The parts get cleaned and the screen supports it.

Bob

Pat

Noodling is a good thing!!!

When you pull up the catfish by the hand you whump 'em upside the head with a club!!!
Fried catfish on the menu WoHoo!!!!!



B

Pat,

Looks like you're covering all the bases on this - from what you've described, the residue seems to be a chem. reaction of the solvents with the plastic.

Sure- look up the Paasche "Air Eraser", a grit blaster that looks like an airbrush. You might find a used one in that price range. I have seen reports that it works well with baking soda as a mild and very fine abrasive... though my brief trial with it resulted in lots of clogging and so-so results.

I am now working with other methods, such as vibratory and tumble cleaners with various media. And keep in mind that there are three types of clean up required:
1. Remove the goopy process waxes... about the consistency of bacon grease;
2. Knock down the surface roughness, or "stair-stepping", inherent to these additive process;
3. Remove material that looks like molding flash, but which is actually excess material resulting from print heads sorely in need of maintenance.

And for reasons not clear to me: If you use solvents to clean off the wax, a hard chalky residue develops on the surface, which is resistant to the most aggressive cleaning methods (but which is safe base for painting).

Well, wouldn't you know???

There ARE actually several "mini" sand blasters on the market - one, [b]Badger Air-Brush Co. 260-3 Abrasive Gun with Propel[/b] is $50.75 @ Amazon and looks like it might work for an application such as this. It uses aluminum oxide as the "sand" and includes mask. Amazon also sells the [b]Badger Mini-Sandblasting Kit [/b]for $47.59 ( thru Blick Art Material) - which appears to be the same unit.

There are a few others, less/more expensive so, I guess this idea isn't THAT far-fetched :doh_1:

OK, I'm thinking out loud here - I'll toss this "thought grenade" into the mix - not completely off-topic, but...

With a lot of mini-tools and such on the market today, I'm wondering if there wouldn't be a way to make a mini-sandblaster for extra-small items such as this? Something along the lines of a hand-held, pencil-like tool with a very fine opening that would shoot the extra-fine "sand" onto your material to smooth it. A table-mtd. fan/blower/media tank with flex. tubing to the tool - the "sand" could be some form of currently available extra-finely ground abrasive. Used in conjuction with a box to contain the powder, this might solve the clean-up issue with these parts. The blower/pump would have to be calculated with the size of the opening to produce a good, powerful "blast" in order to do the job. Oh, and the tool can't cost more than $49.99 :big_eyes:

Comments.....?

I agree. I've got years of practice cleaning up resin parts.

It can't be worse than some of the resin parts out there, so I wouldn't worry about clean up on the part of the builder ;)

Pelican hooks are part of the chain stopper assembly. And I have the little buggers, but haven't convinced myself yet that they're practical for cleaning and for assembly by modelers... but what do I know?

I'm still noodling on it...

[img]https://matthewsmodelmarine.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/20140710_185727a.jpg[/img]