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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:58 am 
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Hi all, I decided to start this new topic here as - to my surprise - I did not find it here (and neither one for Aoba class). It seems the later classes are far more popular (also among kit manufacturers) but there ships took part in many battles that keep fascinating me. I am building Hasegawa 1/700 IJN Furutaka in her 1942 (Savo-Cape Esperance) fit but my resources are rather sparse (Lacroix's Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War and Profile Morskie 46 Furutaka) and I have not been able to find much more reliable info anywhere else. I know there was a Model Art issue on both classes but I cannot get hold of it.

Does anybody have access to any worthwhile Furutaka drawings (else than Profile Morskie)? Also any details about floatplanes onboard Furutaka at Savo and Cape Esperance? Presumably these were 2 pcs E7K2, but what about their camouflage? China-type green+brown over light grey or just IJN green over light grey with orange id stripes on leading edge? Profile Morskie suggests the latter, but as I found some other little inaccuracies there already I do not tend to take this for granted.

Thanks a lot!


Last edited by Vladi on Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:08 pm 
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I do share a fascination for this class as well. I do have access, but not at the moment. I will post some things today, though.


Attachments:
Kinugasa vs Aoba details, MS # 36.jpg
Kinugasa vs Aoba details, MS # 36.jpg [ 92.46 KiB | Viewed 5347 times ]
Furutaka as refit, 1939 small.jpg
Furutaka as refit, 1939 small.jpg [ 75.51 KiB | Viewed 5347 times ]
Furutaka vs Aoba Bridge, 1940 small.jpg
Furutaka vs Aoba Bridge, 1940 small.jpg [ 148.89 KiB | Viewed 5347 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:09 pm 
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Hi Dan, thanks for your quick reaction. What you posted just confirmed my suspicions about the Profile Morskie drawings - e.g. the fwd 13mm gun platform looks strange there (e.g. compared to the drawing in L&W) and the large vents on the back of the bridge are missing entirely.

Would be great if you can find something about the floatplanes, too, but there is no hurry.


Attachments:
File comment: Furutaka in 1942 according to Profile Morskie 46 with marked suspicious sections
Furutaka 1942 PM 46.JPG
Furutaka 1942 PM 46.JPG [ 47.41 KiB | Viewed 5321 times ]
File comment: Same sections marked at Dan´s posting
Furutaka vs Aoba Bridge, 1940 small marked.jpg
Furutaka vs Aoba Bridge, 1940 small marked.jpg [ 53.56 KiB | Viewed 5321 times ]

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:27 pm 
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Nice thread. IJN Furutaka and IJN Aoba class is my favourite Imperial Japanese heavy cruisers. I wil try later and contribute to the thread, pointing some errors to the 1/700 Hasegawa kits.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:01 am 
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Hasegawa's IJN Kinugasa is using IJN Aoba's rangefinders for the main turrets(number 2# and 3#). This means larger spoting windows wich was used only after late 1942 early 1943 and by this time IJN Kinugasa was sunk.
You need to reduce them in size a bit. It must be in size or appearance like the ones in IJN Furutaka and IJN Kako. Of course this must be done for an early war IJN Aoba too.
Hasegawa dosnt provide 13 mm double AA for IJN Furutaka, IJN Kako and IJN Kinugasa those where located in front of the bridge, so you need to use 2 double 13 mm AA from spare parts.
IJN Aoba's turrets needs to be completely free from the training aiming devices. Those where removed from all Heavy Cruisers some time in 1943
(or early 1942).
This is what Im talking about, you can see it clear here in number 1#, its also present on number 2# and 3# but obscured by the rangeifnder. This model still has them which is wrong, lots of modelers ignore this little detail, and for some unknown reason, model companies still do that mistake:
Image
Image
&
Image
Notice that the real ship sunk in Kure in 1945 didnt had those training aiming devices. Notice number 3# turret no training aiming device:
Image
And number 1# and 2#, no training aiming devices:
Image

Those training aiming devices where present in all Japanese Heavy Cruisers minus the 20 cm turrets for IJN Mogami class(but the 15.5 cm triple ones had them, also IJN Tone class). Sometime after late 1942 to mid 1943 those where removed from all Heavy Cruisers.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:54 am 
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As a bonus:
Image
In the red cirlce there is an enlarged spotting window for the rangefinder from IJN Aoba taken 1946. Hasegawa's IJN Kinugasa shall not have enlarged spotting windows for her 2# and 3# turret neither an early war IJN Aoba(they must be the same as the IJN Furutaka/IJN Kako' s rangefinders) this modification only occured sometime at mid or late 1943 by this time only IJN Aoba was "alive".


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:40 am 
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Interesting, thanks! I did not know about the training aiming device being removed later in the war. I will remember your points once I will start with Aoba/Kinugasa.

Have you got anything on Furutaka/Kako?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:22 pm 
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from model art 23
the airplane of furutaka are DIV and GIV (i hope so)
ciao peppe
ps if you want at better risolution send by pm your email


Attachments:
r1.jpg
r1.jpg [ 97.36 KiB | Viewed 5252 times ]
r2.jpg
r2.jpg [ 107.11 KiB | Viewed 5252 times ]
r3.jpg
r3.jpg [ 98.58 KiB | Viewed 5252 times ]
r4.jpg
r4.jpg [ 130.76 KiB | Viewed 5252 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:23 pm 
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Thanks Peppe for very interesting posts. What is puzzling me again is the difference between the two Model Art drawings you posted (r1 and r3) in the vents on the back of the bridge (marked red in my previous post above) - these are clearly present in r1 and absent in r3. Also, they are absent in Lacroix p. 252 (Furutaka after 1939 modernization). However, they are part of both Hasegawa 1/700 and Blue Water Navy 1/350 http://www.steelnavy.com/BWNFurutaka.htm kits.

There is another difference between the bridge on r2 in your post above and in Lacroix on p. 254 - see below (shape of the fwd platform carrying the two dual 13mm machine guns, railing vs. solid wall).

Last but not least I noticed remarkable difference in the aircraft handling deck shape (under the mainmast) as it appears in the Hasegawa kit (looks similar to the one at r1 picture above, i.e. before modernization) and the one shown at r3, Lacroix p. 252, Profile Morskie and also the Blue Water Navy kit. The latter shape is much narrower and also the aircraft handling rails make more sense to me that way (unlike in the Hasegawa kit).


Attachments:
File comment: Furutaka after 1939 modernization, Lacroix p. 252
Furutaka LW 252.JPG
Furutaka LW 252.JPG [ 109.24 KiB | Viewed 5241 times ]
File comment: Furutaka bridge after 1939 modernization, Lacroix p. 254
Furutaka LW 254.JPG
Furutaka LW 254.JPG [ 78.87 KiB | Viewed 5241 times ]


Last edited by Vladi on Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:28 pm 
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This
Image
posted by Peppe is the correct drawing. In my visit in Japan the 1/700 Hasegawa's team said that they used the official drawings from the Tokyo maritime museum archive for IJN Furutaka and IKN Kako models.
Plus some new photos that they where available when the book "Japanese Cruisers of The Pacific War" was published. So the aircraft handling era is the correct on Peppe's second pictrure and Hasegawa's models. I guess the incorrect image of the aircraft handling era came from absence of overhead pictrures and hard to access drawings from the Tokyo archive.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Vladi wrote:
Last but not least I noticed remarkable difference in the aircraft handling deck shape (under the mainmast) as it appears in the Hasegawa kit (looks similar to the one at r1 picture above, i.e. before modernization) and the one shown at r3, Lacroix p. 252, Profile Morskie and also the Blue Water Navy kit. The latter shape is much narrower and also the aircraft handling rails make more sense to me that way (unlike in the Hasegawa kit).

Actually no, this picture is AFTER modernization. IJN Furutaka class had a modernization in early 1930's(1932-33). The first big modernization that ever occured to a heavy cruiser in Japanese navy. They where quite different before that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:38 pm 
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IJN Furutaka class was the first IJN Heavy cruisers that had the 25 mm and 13 mm in service. They went to WW2 virtualy unchanged from the 1932-33 modernization, with only small details added later(degaussing cable and new floatplanes).


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:58 pm 
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According to Lacroix, Furutaka was modernized in early 30s and then in 1939 (not 1941, sorry for my mistake previously) when it received the dual 8" turrets instead of the previous singles. During this refit the bridge structure gained one more level thanks to removal of ventilation cowls (Lacroix p. 253). This can maybe explain the missing vents on the back of the bridge on some pictures, but without clear photos it is hard to tell.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:13 pm 
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I mixed up the dates, I meant 1936-39.
That time the double 20 cm turrets replaced the single ones. The drawing on page .252 on the book "Japanese Cruisers of The Pacific War" is wrong as it missing the vents on the back of the bridge and it has the aircraft era the wrong shape.
The first drawing Peppe posted is correct.
I meant this one:

Image

This is based on the official Kure Navy Yard drawing from 1939 where IJN Furutaka got her reconstruction.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Notice the height of aft main mast. Hasegawa is correct only for IJN Kako, you need to modify IJN Furutaka's to recemble the one on the drawing.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:21 pm 
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Ok, thanks a lot!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:24 pm 
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Hasegawa's IJN Furutaka and IJN Aoba class are amazing kits, very good detail and quality of fitting, with some small correction(only noticed by experts) the kits can be turned into diamonds.
Big improved over the IJN Myoko class by Hasegawa.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:56 pm 
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There are some amazing builds out there for sure. I want to tackle some of these, one day.


Attachments:
Furutaka late 1941 color.jpg
Furutaka late 1941 color.jpg [ 145.06 KiB | Viewed 5195 times ]
Furutaka & AOba, late 1941, #1.jpg
Furutaka & AOba, late 1941, #1.jpg [ 133.05 KiB | Viewed 5195 times ]
Furutaka, late 1941 #2small.jpg
Furutaka, late 1941 #2small.jpg [ 137.71 KiB | Viewed 5195 times ]
Kako  superstructure & foredeck.JPG
Kako superstructure & foredeck.JPG [ 104.99 KiB | Viewed 5195 times ]
Kako, 1941.jpg
Kako, 1941.jpg [ 114.31 KiB | Viewed 5195 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:47 pm 
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Some more illustrations from L & W. Ignore my markings on the Furutaka diagram.


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L&W Furutaka bridge, 1941 layout.jpg
L&W Furutaka bridge, 1941 layout.jpg [ 141.28 KiB | Viewed 5188 times ]
L&W Aoba bridge, 1944 layout.jpg
L&W Aoba bridge, 1944 layout.jpg [ 147.82 KiB | Viewed 5188 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:40 am 
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i'll upload some pics from my Gakken book soon there is a nice looking model of Furutaka there, i can't remember in what year she is depicted here though.



Jose :wave_1:


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