? Battleship Bretagne - France - Design & 3D printing 1:200

[Iceman 29]

you're welcome, Tom!

Drawing of the Barr and Stroud 15 foot triplex rangefinder, greatly simplified due to lack of accurate information, but at 1/200 it should do the trick.

[Fliger747]

The array of binocular periscopes on the flying bridge are interesting. I have an army/marine unit like that from WWII. That they appear to be fixed rather than rotating and on an exposed bridge is a little strange. For trench use etc they allow use of the periscope function and the stereo feature is enhanced by the separation at the objective. However the periscope function not particularly useful.

An interesting setup which I am not familiar!

Regards: Tom

[wefalck]

Indeed, I have never seen such thing as these binocular periscopes on a ship. On land they were very common for battlefield observation.

Neither was I aware of these triple rangfinders ...

Always somehing to learn!

[Iceman 29]

Drawing of the pen boards of the platforms, the 47mm cannon mounts, plus lots of little things.

[Iceman 29]

I started a quick draft of a temporary projector type inspired by several models.

I did not find for the moment exactly what I wanted.

Thanks to all the contributors who are very helpful.

I am at the beginning of the drawing. Although the details won't show.
I will print them in transparent resin.

The base is obviously square, not round, from this picture.

[Fliger747]

Pascal:

A beautiful virtual rendering! It will be interesting to see how this gets chopped up to be printed? From those of us who do print, some further insight into this process will be quite fascinating and informative.

Regards: Tom

[Iceman 29]

Tks Tom, yes, printing should be a challenge..

The day's progress, I worked on the central part around the turret, the rail tracks of the moving searchlights, then the rear of the 2nd deck where the boat supports are located.

It's quite long because you have to interpret the layers of the ship's plans at this level and not make mistakes.















Exceptionally, a touch of color !

[Iceman 29]

I would make the green a bit stronger next time, although here it is shown after a few weeks in the water with already some concretions.

Antifouling paints tend to lighten up a lot after a few weeks in the sea water in my experience.

It's even surprising when you go to the dry dock to apply a new green, red or black paint. I thought to myself, "well this green that he applies is much darker than the previous one". But no, after a few weeks the color was identical.

It was all the more obvious when the sailors applied antifouling patches afloat when the ship was light, mainly in the areas where the fenders rubbed. The darker patches would gradually fade into the green of the hull.

I also have a small sailboat that had a green antifouling from Boero, the same phenomenon occurred. �

Very effective long lasting antifouling without organotin toxin, with high copper salt content:


This green looks a lot like the Schweinfurt green or Paris green, but much less toxic...!

You can see on these personal photos the difference between the application of the paint coming out of the pot and after a few weeks in the sea water. You can also see clearly at the actual waterline the difference in color.

It would be interesting to take this into account on the models at the waterline.









Schweinfurt Grun



In 1805, while precipitating verdigris with an arsenic compound, the Austrian Ignaz Edler von Mitis (1771-1842) discovered "copper arsenic acid", a yellow-green pigment that was named Mitis green after him. The industrial production of the bright and lightfast arsenic pigment started around 1808 in Schweinfurt in the Wilhelm Sattler paint and ceramics factory.

The place of manufacture gave the pigment the name Schweinfurter Gr�n. The Merseburg physician Carl von Basedow first published evidence of the toxic effect of wallpaper printed with Schweinfurt green in 1844. He showed that a certain fungus (Penicillium brevicaule) in the Schweinfurt green bound to the glue releases organic arsenic compounds which lead to poisoning by the air we breathe.

Schweinfurter Gr�n was very popular in the 19th century. An indication of this is the large number of color names. We also speak of Parisian green, varnished green, Viennese green, emerald green, parrot green, imperial green, etc.. It was used to paint walls, to print on wallpapers, to dye fabrics, for example for the emerald green ball gowns of fashion-conscious women in the 19th century or as an artist's paint. It was particularly popular in the color palette of French impressionists such as Paul Gauguin and Vincent van Gogh.

In Germany, Schweinfurter Gr�n has been banned for painting and wallpaper since 1882.
( Stefan Muntwyler / Georg Kremer, 2010)

Poison Green' and the death of Napoleon
Well... and what does Schweinfurter Gr�n have to do with the death of Napoleon Bonaparte? For a long time there was speculation as to the cause of Napoleon Bonaparte's death and whether it had anything to do with the green color of the wallpaper on St. Helena. Napoleon died there in 1821. Green was all the rage at the time. Only 19 years later - in 1840 - his body returned to France.

It was precisely at this time that scientists were just beginning to worry about arsenic in the bright green paint. His body was barely decomposed, raising suspicion of arsenic poisoning. However, this was challenged in 2008 by an Italian research group, which, through hair analysis, came to the conclusion that in all phases of Napoleon's life considered, as well as in the hair samples of his son and wives, there were equally high levels. of the toxic metal in the body and therefore no poisoning (at least intentional).

https://www.caparol.de/gestaltung/inspi ... rter-gruen

The computer color palette color code I will use next time for the drawing:

[G. Shoda]

Thanks for the very interesting discussion on green anti-fouling paint. Long ago I build a model of Bretagne. Of course, it was very rudimentary compared to your wonderful project.

[Iceman 29]

Tks G.Shoda!

I continued to draw the back of the second bridge, which is rather complicated.
















A great set of very very useful photos retrieved from the french defense server. Some of them are very nice.

I hadn't thought of searching this site for some reason.

https://imagesdefense.gouv.fr/fr/catalo ... c_visuel=1

These are detail pictures which was very rare at the time.

It allows you to see some details that you can't see on the usual wide shot photos.

I put some pictures of a service boat from Strasbourg that could be useful.

There are also some pictures of the Courbet, interesting for the projectors among other things.

Click twice to get the right resolution.

Bretagne.



Bretagne.



Bretagne.



Bretagne.



Bretagne.



Bretagne.




Bretagne.



Bretagne.



Bretagne., exit from the refit. Secret image for a long time, the name is deleted.



47mm gun and sight.



Service boat of the Strasbourg.

















It's time to eat in front of the kitchen. The loading pole at the top right is used for loading coal.

Note the lamp post, there is very little deck lighting on this ship.

This is often the case on warships. But on this type of battleship it is very minimalist.



Bretagne. Loading of 340 mm shells between turret A and B probably.





Excellent view of the Bretagne. crane, the spire is not openwork.



Bretagne.



Scrap 340mm guns.



Courbet.



Courbet, the only detail view of a remote-controlled projector. Rangefinder, amusing the balancing weights.



Lorraine.



Lorraine, you can see the riveting of the turret roof. The carriage foot of the 47 mm gun. Spiral grooves near the ladder to prevent slipping.� �



Lorraine.



Provence.

[Iceman 29]

Improvements of the 340 mm turrets details thanks to the new pictures. Striles to avoid sliding near the ladder, riveting of the roof, installation of hinges on the small ventilation flaps.

[bigtodd]

Pascal,

In the third and fourth pictures from the bottom, they show the same side of the turret. What are the horizontal lines on the side? Are they welds, rivets, or painted lines?


Cheers,
Todd

[Iceman 29]

I don't know. The traces of the foundry mold?

You can't see them on this picture:

[Fliger747]

A lot of interesting detail demonstrating the various nationalities way of doing things. The three element range finder certainly one. Being able to range on something as transient as a shell splash would take considerable skill! By mid WWII USN was able to do this via radar, though several ships firing and involvement of secondary batteries would considerably confuse the picture. The double hatch on the armored turret roof is another interesting and different setup, with an armored intersection and lighter outer cover.

A design in the dreadnought era when new ideas were being tried out and a fast paced changing technology.

Cheers: Tom

[G. Shoda]

Is Kagero Publishing in contact with you? I would definitely like to see (and buy) a book containing your CGI renderings. They are wonderfully detailed and well-researched drawings.

[Iceman 29]

Pascal, when did the ship get 4 bladed props as the photos show 3 bladed versions?

Indeed, 4 blades on the plan of the Lorraine, don't have the propeller plan of the Bretagne. The drawing is dated 1917, thus well after the launch of the "Bretagne" and "Lorraine" (1913).

As for the photos in dry dock they were taken the 18 oct 1916.

I will modify the propellers, it's quite simple.

[Iceman 29]

Is Kagero Publishing in contact with you? I would definitely like to see (and buy) a book containing your CGI renderings. They are wonderfully detailed and well-researched drawings.

No. Maybe I'll do a photo book myself via the internet with an album provider at the end to immortalize it all.

[Iceman 29]

Sketch of the design of the boat cranes.

It was rivet day!

And I laid less than half of it..

[Fliger747]

A lot of rivets in that boat crane, however they add a convincing realism to the model. Maybe small in 1:200!

Cheers: Tom

[Iceman 29]

It was a sketch David..

For the rows of rivets, it will stay like that. As Tom said so well, it will not be seen, too small, and especially the rows of rivets are insignificant details.

I finished the cranes for the boats, two days of drawing. I've had my fill of rivets!

A crane contains 2100 objects, rivets included.

The result seems to be correct thanks to the very small profile drawing and especially to the two detailed HD pictures I found recently on the internet. Without that, the result would have been much less close to the original.