Calling all Forrestal-class & Kitty Hawk-class fans

[TZoli]

I agree that the SPN-44 are those two small circular dishes on the two aft corners (the "Mickey Mouse ear platforms") of the 08 level. Apparently the -44 has been replaced by SPN-46, and that looks about the same.

Since this photo is from the Trials following the major work in SLEP 1980-83, it is possible that all of the sensors are not yet installed here.
Rick

No, those two are the SPN-42's. They are replaced by the similar looking but covered dish version of the SPN-46. The SPN-44 is the one under the aft primary flight control station. There is a glass-less lookout station on the 8th level and next to it is the SPN-44.
The SPN-42 / 46's are on the 7th deck on which once a big radardome located in the 1960's.

[Roberto]

I visited USS Independence back in 1977 while in Naples during my forst year in high school and would like to change a "cheap" Enterprise knock off into her.
I noticed that Model Monkey produces a nice island in 1/350 but for 1971/2, were there many changes between then and 1976/77?
Also where can I find good reference drawings for the Forrestal class deck and sponsons configuration?

Thanks.

[gtbred]

have you looked at this?
"CV-60 � USS Saratoga � Booklet of General Plans, 1993, Forestal Class, SLEP" https://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads ... 8/cv60.pdf

I use that for my 1/350 build of Indy.

[Roberto]

have you looked at this?
"CV-60 � USS Saratoga � Booklet of General Plans, 1993, Forestal Class, SLEP" https://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads ... 8/cv60.pdf

I use that for my 1/350 build of Indy.

Yes, thank you, I downloaded those, however if I understood well they are for a 1993 SLEP refit.
Is there a reference DVD as well?

[TZoli]

On the Forrestals mainmast in their 1980's/90's configuration, there is a radar/antenna which I can't identify what is or what for.
The Booklet of plans designates it Mark 48 Mod 0 Antenna with the look of the simple navigational antennas of civilian ships (Simple rotating rod).
It is located under the SPS-10 platform and just above and behind of the SPS-48 radar, but a close up photo I have shows a much different looking antenna / radar.
Do you guys what could this be?

Booklet of Plans drawing:

Photo:

different photo:

[Rick_H]

Well, here's my opinion.
As you said, it doesn't sound like a Navy system, as plain ol' "Mk 48 Mod 0" is not in the A/N system. As you said, it looks to me like the civilian Decca navigation radar we had on my first ship. I can't find the exact name of that type of antenna, but when you said "rotating rod", I think we are on the same page.

In your first photo (the big one), we are looking at it from the end, and it looks to me that there is a feed horn facing that rotating element. Looking at the Decca radartutorial web page, it seems that this rotating element can come in different lengths, so I think your best guess is to scale it according to some other known component on the mast - I believe the SPS-10 antenna is 11' wide and the SPS-48E antenna is 17' square.

On the other hand... Are you sure the three photos of Forrestal are all from the same period as your drawing? On the big photo, I don't see the SPS-49 antenna that should be visible, even though it is mounted on the outboard side of the center of the stacks. Edit - never mind, I do seethe SPS-49 antenna peeking through the woods. Still I hope all your material is from the same time.
Best of luck,
Rick

[TZoli]

The closest I could find is the Mark 23 TAS - Target Acquisition System - radar
https://www.radartutorial.eu/19.kartei/ ... 35.en.html

Wiki shows a number of photos of this system but they seem a bit different from the Mark 48 one
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cate ... t_1983.jpg

[Admhawk]

Page 6, Island (and mast) levels, identifies it as the TAS Platform.
Combat fleets of the world books list MK23 TAS as being installed on these carriers.
The only Mk48 in any list of Military equipment is a Torpedo, Sea Sparrow Launcher or gun.

Disregard the labeling on the plans, it is a mistake (or referring to something arcane, like the pedestal or electrical box). Not common, but not unheard of.

It is a MK23 TAS.

[TZoli]

Page 6, Island (and mast) levels, identifies it as the TAS Platform.
Combat fleets of the world books list MK23 TAS as being installed on these carriers.
The only Mk48 in any list of Military equipment is a Torpedo, Sea Sparrow Launcher or gun.

Disregard the labeling on the plans, it is a mistake (or referring to something arcane, like the pedestal or electrical box). Not common, but not unheard of.

It is a MK23 TAS.

Maybe the radar antennae the Mark 23 TAS uses is actually an older Mark 48 one? Not unheard of as the early SPS-67 uses the the same older SPS-10 antennae.

Do you have any drawings (top/side/front) view of the Mark 23 TAS? I presume it is required for the Sea Sparrow missile for ships which did not have dedicated Missile Fire control radars?

[Rick_H]

once again, providing partial information...
When I was on the San Diego waterfront in the late 80s, USS Downes (FF-1070) was unique among the Knoxes in that she had a Mk23 TAS, as you say, with no other "proper" FC director for her Nato Sea Sparrow missile. At that time, Downes was the only FF with the NSSMS, while the rest of us still had BPDMS or CIWS.
On Navsource for FF-1070, there are three great photos of Downes showing that TAS antenna at the middle of the mack, marked 1 June 1983.

Also, https://www.radartutorial.eu/19.kartei/ ... 35.en.html

[Amphion]

Does this help any?



Source: https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10465380

[TZoli]

Isn't BPDMS the same as the Sea Sparrow, having only different launchers?
BPDMS having a 2-4-2 box launcher while the Nato Sea Sparrow having a 4-4 box launcher?

[Rick_H]

Isn't BPDMS the same as the Sea Sparrow, having only different launchers?
BPDMS having a 2-4-2 box launcher while the Nato Sea Sparrow having a 4-4 box launcher?

Visually, yes, although the pedestal is different too. BPDMS sits on a cradle, similar to a small ASROC launcher, while the NSSMS is mounted on a single (large) post.

But the missiles are considerably different. BPDMS much slower, and with optical direction only (a director with a human and a bicycle-handle thing.) With our BPDMS, the Combat Systems doctrine was in case of an incoming missile, to shoot with the 5" gun until in BPDMS range, then fire the missile and check fire on the gun, so we would not shoot down our outbound missile.

And "us" was the mighty Stein, FF-1065. The ship had a BPDMS throughout her USN life, and apparently into her life in the Mexican Navy, serving as ARM Ignacio Allende, only recently decommissioned and scrapped. I wonder if the Mexican ever cured her of that half degree port list when all the tanks were full, caused by a later 1980-ish addition of an off-center fresh water tank.

[Timmy C]

This USNI article elaborates upon Rick's excellent summary of the BPDMS/Mk25 launcher+Mk115 illuminator system, and also talks about how it evolved: https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-hi ... ile-system

[TZoli]

I see well it's the "same" Sea Sparrow missile just a different version having the first Sea Sparrow being a very simple navalized AIM-7 Sparrow for the BPDMS while the NSSM uses the much improved and developed missile.
Interesting that it is extremely difficult to find drawings (Top, Side and/or Front view) of this older launcher and illuminator.
I'm no modeller but digital artist hence I require such top/side and/or front view drawings to make my own drawings.
As for people interested about the Sea Mauler system, here is the secret projects thread about it:
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/thread ... -sam.2936/

[Themongoose]

Does anyone have pics of the focsle by chance? There are some in the detail & scale Big E book but they are small and in black & white. I searched on here but nothing came up so hoping someone might have them from a tour or other sources. I�m modeling the Kitty Hawk right now so any of the class would be good.
Chris

I�ve got a pretty unique opportunity with my latest build. I�m lifting the flight deck 4� off the hull with a set of linear motors. As a result the bow area will be visible. Since the anchor hause holes are just above the deck on the Trumpeter 1/350 KittyHawk i thought i�d add some interest to this area and model the focsle.
I found a few pics online. Hoping someone has some cleaner shots that really show the layout.
Here�s what i have to start with

[Themongoose]

would the Saratoga 1993 BOGPs be of any use in that area?
CV-60 - USS Saratoga - Booklet of General Plans, 1993 https://maritime.org/doc/plans/cv60.pdf

Absolutely perfect for my needs!!

[Themongoose]

I�ve had good luck getting answers to obscure questions here. So let�s try another one�
I am looking for photo etch drop tank hangars for modern carriers. One/350 scale. I found a guy on a Czek forum that was adding them to his enterprise. Unfortunately, he didn�t say whether he bought them or made them. I spent a lot of time copying and pasting into Google translate to try and figure that out. Here�s what they look like.

[Ronald47]

Hi all, I'm slowly building a USS Ranger from Italeri. I als have a extra aircraft kit from Pitroad. The italeri:

20240201_212943 by Ronald Halma, on Flickr

The Pitroad set:

20240224_152434 by Ronald Halma, on Flickr

The decals:

20240224_152422 by Ronald Halma, on Flickr

My question is where I can situate the ship in time with these planes and the ones in the kit? Thanks in advance!

[Rick_H]

Those aircraft are a fair amount too big for that Italeri 1/720 scale kit.

As for the airwing composition, the F/A-18 is too late and the A-4 is too early. That leaves you with an airwing accurate for the mid-1980s. I believe those squadrons on the decal sheet served on the Carl Vinson, not Ranger, but that is getting pretty far into the weeds. (If you want to dig and get really precise, take a look at http://www.gonavy.jp/CVW-NEf.html and scroll down to CVW-2 in the 1980s and see the exact squadron makeup.)

Again though, Pitroad aircraft are a bit big for 1/700 and the Italeri kit is smaller than 1/700. Take a look at the aircraft in the kit and compare a similar one to the Pitroad one. If you need some extra a/c for the Italeri kit, let me know.
Rick