Calling all Baltimore-class (CA-68) fans

[HvyCgn9]

would probably be similar radars to a Leahy or Belknap class CG.

SPS48C, SPS43 with SPG55B's for missile fire control

[BB62vet]

Wiki mentions:

While on her last Vietnam cruise thought and funding was given to overhauling Boston (and sister ship Canberra). Her Terrier missile system would have been upgraded to Standard Missile-ER with new radars and equipment for the modern missiles. Her gunnery systems, hull and electronics would have also been overhauled. With the reduction in defense spending, funds were reallocated to more modern ships and Boston sailed for a last visit and family day at her namesake city in late 1969 before decommissioning.

That the two Bostons would had been refitted with the new RIM-67 Standard ER missiles and associated guidance radars and likely updated other sensors as well.
Does somebody know what other changes might had been included? What radars would had been fitted or considered?

Tzoli,

CANBERRA was being refitted in Long Beach in late 1969. I was serving in USS NEW JERSEY as we prepared to take her to Bremerton, WA for decommissioning. I have a couple photos of NEW JERSEY at pier side with CANBERRA in the background - she was already undergoing a refit to her RADAR suite when I made this photo in Sept. '69 -

What exactly was being replaced or with I have no idea. Shortly after I took this photo we departed and I later heard that she was subsequently taken from Long Beach for decommissioning as well, without ever being put back into service. Part of the 1969 Nixon 50 ship cutback that took place to pacify the commies in North Vietnam.

Hank

[Rick E Davis]

Hank,

The decommissioning of a large number old ships in 1969 wasn't really about "pacifying" anyone except "beancounters". Decommissioning USS NEW JERSEY was part of "Peace Talks", but the real reason so many "Old-WWII era" ships were retired, was to free up funds for cost-overrun projects. The older ships were already being decommissioned in the early 1960s to make way for the Missile Conversions and New-Built Missile ships. By 1964 ALL of the Fletcher's in the Atlantic Fleet had been removed from Active Fleet duty with only NRT units and the DDE conversions remaining. Many destroyers and the few remaining "gun-cruisers" were kept in commission as Vietnam heated up for Gunfire support.

USS BOSTON (CAG-1) and CANBERRA (CAG-2) were reassigned as "gun support" off Vietnam in the mid-1960's rather than recommission any Heavy Cruisers from mothballs. BOSTON had her old - obsolete - Terrier missile launchers "decommissioned" in 1968 and she was reclassified as CA-69 again on 1 May 1968. She went on one last Gun-Line tour and was decommissioned in 1970.

USS CANBERRA was similarly reclassified as CA-70 on 1 May 1968. Her Terrier missile launchers were removed, but she was decommissioned before any additional work was done.

I doubt that either unit was going to get an "UPGRADE" to their missile systems. The cost involved and limited capability of those systems and the age of the two cruisers, made it unlikely. A study to determine the cost of upgrading the missile systems on these two cruisers, was likely done to justify decommissioning them as "not cost effective".

I'm unsure of when either ship last actually had "operational" Terrier missile systems functioning. Other than minor sensors upgrades, and removal of the outdated missile guidance systems, not much would have changed if they had not been decommissioned when they were.

[BB62vet]

Rick,

Beancounter, OF COURSE!!! How could I forget??? Where are they now?????

Hank

[TZoli]

Boston still had her launchers late 1960's early 70's but likely the missiles themselves got removed.

[Rick E Davis]

" ... they are still around in the navy ... " ???? Which the twin arm launchers or Terrier missiles?

All of the ships so equipped have been decommissioned and scrapped or made into museum pieces. Even the first few TICONDEROGA class CG's were decommissioned rather than upgrade them to vertical launchers.

The "replacement" missile "Standard" (now several versions) exist as vertical launch missiles.

Upgrading the first "operational" Anti-Air missile cruisers in the USN would have taken much more than simply replacement of missiles. The launchers were the first mod versions, and would need to be modified to launch the Standard missiles or be replaced with a newer launcher. The stowage and handling of the new missiles would require mods. Sensors would all need to be upgraded. All in all a very expensive proposal. Building of new CG's/DDG's in large numbers made more sense.

It could be argued that they were useful as gunfire ships and served multiple tours as such off Vietnam. But, with budget pressures from new construction and paying for ground fighting, somethings had to give.

[TZoli]

Regarding the USS Boston and Canberra as Guided Missile Heavy Cruisers ( CAG ) does anybody know how were their radar suite changed in the various years/refits? They seem to be changed quite often.

[vicvega]

I seem to remember a few years back that there was talk of Trumpeter putting out a 1:350 scale Baltimore, possibly a Pittsburg subvariant as well. Was this just my imagination? If not, does anybody know why those plans never came to fruition?

[Timmy C]

Not a rumour - Trumpeter still advertises 1/350 Baltimores as forthcoming in their catalogues. You can see them in the 2023/2024 one, a copy of the page being available in the first post of the Upcoming Releases thread in the Main Forum.

Can't tell you why they haven't put them to market though.

[SeanF]

Not a rumour - Trumpeter still advertises 1/350 Baltimores as forthcoming in their catalogues. You can see them in the 2023/2024 one, a copy of the page being available in the first post of the Upcoming Releases thread in the Main Forum.

Can't tell you why they haven't put them to market though.

Trumpeter listed a 1/32 TBD as "Coming Soon!" for about 20 years before it finally materialized. The 1:350 Baltimores (and Nelsons, for that matter) haven't been on the list for quite so long (yet), but Trumpeter has a pretty decent track record of eventually getting around to the things they said they'd do. With many other shiny objects cutting in line ahead of them in the meantime, of course!
Not that I don't feel your pain... I've been looking forward to it myself. I plan to get a Model Monkey late-fit USS Los Angeles bridge set once the kit finally materializes, to build my hometown (more or less) cruiser!

- Sean F.

[DougC]

Remember, models are only a minor part of Trumpeter's business. Their main product is industrial plastic molding. Think of the plastic body of toasters, auto interior panels, body of disc players, etc.

[Octopus]

Hello everyone


Does anyone have a photos of the underwater part of the hull of this type of cruiser (Baltimore and sisterships). I would like to do an imitation of the plating in my model.

Thanks
Best regards

[FFG-7]

what scale is your model?

[Octopus]

FFG-7

publisher Avangard 1/200

[Michael Potter]

One source: <NavSource.org> page for USS Canberra (CA 70) has several photographs of her underwater hull.

photos of the underwater part of the hull of this type of cruiser (Baltimore and sisterships)

[DrPR]

It has been at least 20 years since I looked at the blueprints for the Baltimore hulls, and I don't remember any details of the plating. The blueprints in the National Archives would show this.

The cruisers didn't always have simple over/under plating as often seen in freighters and such. I am very familiar with the plating on the Cleveland class cruisers, more or less scaled down Baltimores. The Cleveland plating was VERY complex, with horizontal and vertical strakes, and quite a few non-rectangular plates. Take a look at this link to see what I am talking about:

https://www.okieboat.com/CAD%20hull.html

Some strakes overlapped only the strakes below them, some were overlapped by both higher and lower strakes, some overlapped only the strakes above them, and some overlapped both higher and lower strakes. The vertical strakes at the bow were welded together with no overlaps. Plating at the bow and stern was welded, but midships it was riveted. Above the waterline rivet backing plates were external, but below the waterline they were all internal.

I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this in the Baltimore hull plating.

Phil

[Rick E Davis]

I have a question.

I have been working at "trying" to build a model of the USS TOLEDO (CA-133) in her post-WWII configuration (1956-60). I have the Trumpeter 1/700 scale kit, I know I have to do a lot of modification for the late 1950's. But, based on the original ship drawings at NARA, I keep running into multiple errors Trumpeter has made in the basic kit for the BALTIMORE (PITTSBURG group variant). No surprise with Trumpeter. Actually their kit has some poorly molded parts, resembling 1950's kits!!!

Are there any other kits of the single aircraft crane PITTSBURG group of the BALTIMORE class? I couldn't find any listed. I assume that a resin kit or more "Were" at one time were available. Trumpeter has been advertising a 1/350 scale kit for a number of years. Does any of the "better" kit makers like Very Fire, have plans for making a model of these ships??

I'm thinking of a 1/700 or maybe 1/350 scale PLASTIC kit. I'm not impressed with ordering one of the Chinese 3-D printed things.

[David Sandifer]

Rick, you're looking for Toledo CA-133 with 3"/50 and no catapults?

Robert Apfelzwig built the 1/350 ISW kit 4056 Pittsburgh CA-72 in WWII rig and Ms32/18D. See her in the APR2015 Modelwarships Gallery.

I bought the 3D Chinese Baltimore 1943 CA-68 with the plan to build Canberra CA-70 in Ms32/18D. The detailing is outstanding, but the four-segmented hull was *****. Robert really helped with his ideas. Canberra is now joined, primed overall, the deck is painted, and she is mounted on an oak base.

[Rick E Davis]

Yes, the USS TOLEDO (CA-133) was one of four BALTIMORES (USS HELENA, MACON, and LOS ANGELES were the others) converted for the REGULUS SSM missiles. My interest in this ship, is because she was named for the city I grew up about 70-miles from, and because of the REGULUS missile installation.

I always found this configuration interesting and found multiple onboard photos of these missiles being loaded, retrieved, and fired in 80-G photos at NARA. But finding overall views of TOLEDO is a bit harder than say LOS ANGELES. I got back from a trip to NARA last week, and after going through some 60 rolls of drawings of TOLEDO and additional photos, I found much of what I was looking for. But, as I sat down and looked at the original drawings and compared them to the Trumpeter PITTSBURG kit, I found several errors in layout. The Trumpeter kit allows me to get a WWII strip down of the WWII era 20-mm and 40-mm guns, and the catapults. But, it will take additional effort to relocate, modify, or replace "STUFF". It doesn't help that Trumpeter's instructions are terrible as are many of the parts are poorly molded. It looks like I will need to start over with a "fresh" PITTSBURG group kit (that I have), unless I want to try cutting and moving stuff already assembled. That's why I asked if there was another 1/700 scale (or 1/350 scale) BALTIMORE kit out there that I could use as the base kit for the conversion that would have fewer errors. I knew that ISW made a BALTIMORE kit at one time, but I was unsure if I could find one since ISW has been purchased by Squadron. The Chinese 3-D printed kits look to be a headache for me to modify as well.

I have yet to make copies of the original REGULUS BALTIMORE cruiser deck plans and the Trumpeter kit layout to match up what needs to be changed. I plan on using the Model Monkey 1950's BALTIMORE bridge that was modified at about the same time as the REGULUS SSM install, which I have yet to order. Model Monkey parts will replace weapons (except for twin 3-in RFG mounts from Black Cat) and fire control equipment. USS TOLEDO was modified at PSNSY in 1956, the drawings of the modifications were called "Project Ram". It appears that all four "Project Ram" modified BALTIMORES, were modified at different Naval Shipyards, so there could be differences based on the where the units were built originally (three different yards) and then modified.

Meanwhile, I remembered an OLD REVELL HELENA kit I had water-lined MANY years ago (20+ years ago) that I gave up on since finding replacement weapons in the oddball 1/481 scale was next to impossible at that time. Anyway, I dug out that kit from the stash and it looks like the deck layout is pretty accurate for that kit!!! But, a lot of "removing" of molded on 20-mm guns, etc, is needed. I'm trying that option now in a dual path (with a lot of carving on the REVELL kit) with Trumpeter's mess. Not happy to again be hunting (and paying for custom work) for 3-D printed weapons in this scale). Model Monkey makes accurate 8-in and 5-in mounts in this scale, with 3-in twin RFG mounts being a problem in 1/481 scale.

[maxim]

Model Monkey has the late closed bridge for the Baltimore class for St. Paul and Los Angeles plus the positions for the 3" guns plus a lot of other parts:
https://www.model-monkey.com/product-pa ... idges-1968
https://www.model-monkey.com/product-pa ... idges-1968
https://www.model-monkey.com/product-pa ... -1957-1959
https://www.model-monkey.com/product-pa ... -3-50-tubs
https://www.model-monkey.com/product-pa ... ietnam-era
https://www.model-monkey.com/product-pa ... win-mounts
https://www.model-monkey.com/product-pa ... s-cold-war
https://www.model-monkey.com/product-pa ... y-cold-war
https://www.model-monkey.com/product-pa ... -directors

MRY-SFW has a upgrade set for the Baltimore class
https://www.ebay.com/itm/335525141337