The Ship Model Forum

I did a little search and didn't see anything in the CASF section So I decided to start one. I really like this class of ship. They weren't really game changers like the Queen Elizabeth class was but they were still sturdy and could dish out the shells.

Here's a snippit from Wikipedia (Great article)


Ship Kits Available
1/600 Airfix - Iron Duke (Out of production but still available at retailers as of Oct. 14, 2013.)

1/700 Combrig - Iron Duke
1/700 Combrig - Emperor of India
1/700 Combrig - Marlborough
1/700 Combrig - Benbow

Accessories
B&D Barrels 1/600 - 13.5"/Mk45 Brass Barrels (10pc)
Artwox 1/600 - Wood Deck Kit

Artist Hobby 1/700 - Upgrade Kit for Combrig (PE, Resin Turrets & Metal Barrels)

Gallery Models:

1/700
1/700 Combrig - Iron Duke - By Kostas Katseas
1/700 Combrig - Iron Duke #2 - By Kostas Katseas

1/600
1/600 Airfix - Iron Duke - By Ralf Roggeveen
1/600 Airfix - Iron Duke - By Wes Beatty
1/600 Airfix - Iron Duke - By Steve Collins
1/600 Airfix - Iron Duke - By Bernd Villhauer
1/600 Airfix - Marlborough - By Erick Navas
1/600 Airfix - Emperor of India - By Erick Navas

1/96
Scratch Built Iron Duke 1916 - by Ron Horabin (sadly, all WIP photos are out of order due to outdated photo hosting method)

I want this to be a live discussion thread. If you've got pics, reference materials, etc, and they are allowed to be posted here then please do

_________________
-Shane

Dallas, Tx

Working on: Revell 1/426 USS Arizona BB-39

In the Stash: USS Arizona 1/700 Dragon Premium, DKM Bismarck 1/700 Dragon Premium, Admiral Graf Spee 1/700 Trumpeter, & Prinz Eugen 1/700 Trumpeter

There we go. Things are a little more up to CASF standards. I've got a 1/600 Airfix kit on the way of Iron Duke. Can't wait to get it. From the gallery it looks like it's a fairly simple and representative kit.

_________________
-Shane

Dallas, Tx

Working on: Revell 1/426 USS Arizona BB-39

In the Stash: USS Arizona 1/700 Dragon Premium, DKM Bismarck 1/700 Dragon Premium, Admiral Graf Spee 1/700 Trumpeter, & Prinz Eugen 1/700 Trumpeter

Building the Airfix 1:600 scale HMS Iron Duke.

By Bryan Jones.

Hi this is my first effort at super detailing a kit although I have been making models off and on for many years. These notes that may be of interest for anyone contemplating super detailing HMS Iron Duke.

Generally this kit appears accurate in most details, however it does not represent any particular era of HMS Iron Dukes long carrier.
Following the instructions one would create a model with the following.
The eight 3 pounder guns on the lower superstructures for and aft were all removed by 1915.
Two hull mounted 6” casemate aft were found to be too exposed to the sea were relocated to forecastle amidships by 1916. (The kit shows guns in both locations)
The bridge superstructure, mast, rangefinders, searchlights and searchlight platform structure around the after funnel represents late war early 1920’s modifications.
The ship is also festooned with extra ships boats added in the 1930’s.

I decided to build my model as she would have appeared during her last refit prior to the battle of Jutland in 1916. For my references I used my copy of British Battleships of World War One by Bart and every image I could find on the internet including a magnificent Scratch built HMS IRON DUKE 1916 in1:96 scale on this website.

First off starting from the base.
The floor of the dock was made from Evergreen: 4517 side walk 3/8” squares 9.5mm.
This approximates the size of the concrete slabs of a drydock at Portsmouth Dockyard.
Concrete supports made from chopped up timber moldings.

For the lower hull I used: White Ensign Colourcoat RN19 RN Anti Fouling Red.
For the prop shafts I used 1mm dia steel rod. (Easier and better results than the kit parts).

The 1916 paint scheme for the Grand Fleet was a monochrome gloss grey (matt paint was note invented at this time) made from 20 parts white and one part black.
I painted the upper hull, all vertical surfaces, turrets, guns, mast and booms etc with mix of Humbrol 130 satin white with Humbrol matt black to give a scale effect. I am happy with the result the model mimics old photos of world War 1 battleships with the light subtly picking up the gun turrets reflections.

For the 6” casement guns I used Modellmarine: SM-400-002 brass barrels. These are 4” 1:400 scale guns that give the correct length, profile and diameter to represent my 1:600 scale 6” guns.
The area around the casements is a poorly designed, too many parts have to align the up stands that are supposed to fit in rings that form the casements are oversize and a lot of filling and sanding is required to hide the joins were the hull parts met.
My solution was glue the casements to a piece of scrap by the existing molded on barrel, cut a section out of the ring and fit and superglue the new brass barrel in position, then cut the old barrel away releasing the new assembly. I cut the up stands flush then glued my new casement gun assemblies in position.

There is another omission I discovered late in my build was that the wall forward of the 6”forcastle guns should jut out to follow line of the deck above. This was resolved using 2.5mm plastic equal angle.

I purchased a second Airfix Iron Duke kit for use as spare parts for $20. This was because I was short of the correct ships boats, old style rangefinders, twin searchlights and correct unmodified main turrets for my 1916 build. (I still had modify one turret)

Next I filed off the moulded on anchor chains then I fitted the Artwox wooden deck for HMS Iron Duke in place. (This looks great; it really sets off my model)
The Artwox brass anchor chain I painted and cut to the four lengths required along with very thin plastic sheet strips to be fitted between the anchor chains and the timber decks.

For the admirals stern walk I used the existing Airfix floor filled flat and covered with an off cut of Artwox timber floor and the parts from White Ensign Iron Duke brass photo etch after first removing the roof from the airfix deck.

For the main gun turrets I superglued Bruce Buchner’s BDB60001 13.5” Iron Duke brass barrels in position. Blast bags were made from one ply of two ply kitchen paper towel cut to 3 mm strips one end poked in recess and rapped around each barrel add a bit of super glue (this soaks all around) then mould to shape with a tooth pick.
I was happy with the result.

At this point it was necessary to scratch build the armored cupola and remake the enclosed compartments on wings on the forecastle deck. The aft shelter decks were also modified with plastic sheet. Fore the two 3” AA guns no aftermarket was available so I used: White Ensign: 1:700 scale 4”single QF Mk HA mounts, these were ok for length, profile and diameter but slightly under scale for the mount.
All these decks were painted with Tamiya XF-54, this I felt looked right for a polished and oiled or tarred deck.

The ships boats lacked detail so I added some detail with plastic sheet and brass tube on the two steam Pinnaces and the Admirals steam Barge. For the other eleven boats I either covered with super glued paper towel or hollowed out the hulls and used White Ensign’s Ships Boats Fittings set.

There is a lot of door detail missing on the kit, for these I used White Ensign Iron Duke set positioned the parts using a vacuum suction pen.

The searchlight platform on the after funnel I had to scratch build from plastic sheet and also the hut between the funnels.

The worst part of Airfix’s Iron Duke is the parts that make up the upper superstructure not only are these needlessly complicated they are inaccurate. What has apparently happened is that no allowance for the thickness of the three decks up to the top of the navigation bridge, consequently it is over 3 millimeter to high this is noticeable because this level should be slightly below the top of the forward funnel.
So after a lot trimming to height in three places I still had to pack the funnels up by .5 mm. I filled of the three moulded on gussets under the navigation bridge and replaced them with the correct five gussets.
All these decks I painted using White Ensign RN19 Corticene.

Parts on the star platform and compass platform had to modified, deleted or relocated to backdate to 1916.
I scratch built the mast, yards and bipod braces from wire of 1.5, 0.5. and 1.0 mm diameter.

White Ensign Iron Duke 1:600 set was used for all the railings, boat davits, funnel caps etc.

Lastly for rigging I used the smallest very hard to find nylon fishing line: Varivas Midge Super Tippet 12x.
This is 0.067 mm diameter looks about right even though scaled up it would be 40 mm diameter on my Iron Duke.



For those that are interested I have attached some rough sketches of my build.

Bryan that's awesome info! Thanks!

_________________
-Shane

Dallas, Tx

Working on: Revell 1/426 USS Arizona BB-39

In the Stash: USS Arizona 1/700 Dragon Premium, DKM Bismarck 1/700 Dragon Premium, Admiral Graf Spee 1/700 Trumpeter, & Prinz Eugen 1/700 Trumpeter

I have a question about the appearance of the Iron Duke class that I am hoping someone with better knowledge can shed some light on. I am trying to confirm the size and location of the 6” gunfire directors that were added to all four ships during 1915-16.

Burt states in both British Battleships of World War One and British Battleships 1919-1945 that these were fitted port and starboard to Iron Duke at the lower bridge level, and to the rest of the ships at the upper bridge level. However, there are several photographs in the latest edition of these books that clearly conflict with this. For example, on pages 228-229 of the first volume above, there is a two page spread photo identified as Iron Duke, but with the directors at the upper bridge level. Based on later photos of Iron Duke as demilitarized, I am inclined to believe that the main text is correct and that the photos have been incorrectly identified.

There also appear to have been differences in the diameter of the 6” director housings between the ships. Based on photos and the as-modified Admiralty profile drawing reproduced in Friedman’s British Battleships 1906-1946, Iron Duke was fitted with 6" directors that were of very similar in size to the main battery director mounted above the control top on the foremast. Emperor of India’s 6” director also appears to have been of similar size. The 6” directors for the other two ships appear to be of smaller diameter. This can be seen clearly in the photo of Marlborough on pages 224-225 of British Battleships of World War One. This would be consistent with the equipment on the following Queen Elizabeth class; the AOTS volume for Warspite clearly shows that smaller diameter 6” directors were fitted. There does remain a degree of uncertainty to this information though due to the photo identification issue I noted above.

Does anyone have any additional information that might help clarify this issue?

I guess you can put me down as a fan as I have recently completed a model at 1/96 scale (78"). I was fortunate to get a gold at the Model Engineer Exhibition at Brooklands in 2016.

For full details may I suggest you visit the model boat mayhem website forum - Warships R&D. There is a full build log together with simulating gunfire plans and schematics. I should be able to get something in the region of 500 shots without reloading!

Hope this may be of interest

Cheers

Geoff

When did the Iron Duke get the mast on the aft superstructure (circled, below)?

The Combrig kit alleges to be 1918, but Burt (British Battleships of WW!) says the aft mast wasn't added until 1920-21. I can't find any good photos of Iron Duke in 1918, only her sisters. Marlborough seems to have a smaller mast on the aft superstructure in 1918 (no searchlight platform) and Emperor of India has no mast. Trying to find out which is correct for Iron Duke before going too much further.

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

Maritimequest has a photo of her which the caption says was taken at Malta in September 1919, and she has no aft mast, so if accurate it means she didn't have it in 1918. Hope that helps.



https://www.maritimequest.com/warship_d ... n_duke.htm

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Hard a starboard.......Shoot!

Thanks. I knew I had seen that picture somewhere, but kept looking through Burt's books trying to find it!

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

in Perking's book on identificatiion of british warships vol 1 mast was added in 1929
ciao peppe

Anyone know if there is photographic evidence of the attached image? It mentions there is no evidence of another schema, sort of implying there is for the below.

I don't have enough of a collection of Iron Duke to say either way. I do wish people would take more care in their wording though. Dark Slate Grey in British parlance was and still is a recognised specific colour and I've yet to see any evidence for it being used on British warships.

It's the olive greenish colour used in British aviation as seen on this Martlet:

_________________
James Duff
Sovereign Hobbies Ltd
http://www.sovereignhobbies.co.uk

Current build:
HMS Imperial D09 1/350
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=167151

Dear Boys & Girls, were there ever any old conversion articles in magazines such as Airfix Magazine exploring conversions of the old Airfix 1/600 scale HMS Iron Duke kit? I'm thinking particularly of conversions to the previous Orion class and King George V class battleships.

Terry (Caravellarella)

_________________
Because L'Oréal keeps telling me I'm worth it!

Maybe it's Maybelline..............

I'm wondering if anyone here has built Modelik's 1/200 Scale Card model of HMS Iron Duke? If so, would you recommend this kit?

As completed, the class carried four pulling boats (whalers and gigs) hung on davits along the edges of the boat deck. Since, in this position, they could not be lowered straight into the water (they were directly above the upper deck, and not over the ship's side), they were presumably lowered and hoisted by the main derrick or the sided derricks abeam the after funnel. Similarly, there is a gig slung from davits on the after superstructure, directly above the barrels of "Q" turret.

However, the instructions for the Deluxe version of the Flyhawk 1/700 kit of Iron Duke indicate that these boats were slung from falls, with lifelines hanging vertically from the wire jackstay between the davit-heads, and with ladders to board the boat from the edge of the boat deck or superstructure. As the lifelines (ropes hanging vertically from the jackstay and coiled inside the boat when at the davits, intended for crewmen to hold onto as the boat is lowered into the sea), and perhaps the ladders, would not be needed if the boat was not lowered into the sea from the davits, are the instructions in error?

DavidP,

Not the boats that tjstoneman is writing about.

tjstoneman,

I would tend to agree with you: the instructions appear to be in error. Why? I offer these possible reasons:

1. The kit manufacturer has seen photographs of the sea-boats, fitted either in this class or elsewhere, with the items that you described and because its designer saw the boom boats mentioned, hanging from davits in the IRON DUKEs, assumed that they should also have what you described and included them in the kit.

2. However, there is the possibility that the draughtsman of the plans from which the kit was designed included them in error and the kit manufacturer didn't check the facts!

All that said, fitting the boats mentioned to complete a kit may depend on time period the model that it is to be displayed. The boats shown are likely to be "as fitted" and only carried in peace time. They may have been sent inshore (landed) in war. Certainly they would have been at risk from blast/action damage if not.

81542

Thank you DavidP; however, the davits for these five boats were at the deckedge of the boat deck or after superstructure, and they overhung the upper deck, not the ship's side. They were normally stowed with the boats away from the deck (because, for the ones at the edge of the boat deck, the boom boats filled all available space inboard), and I don't think the davits would have rotated. Thus directly below the davithead was the upper deck, not the water.

See, for example, the depiction of the ancient Airfix 1/600 scale model at http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... uke-04.jpg - the only boats which overhung the water would have been the pair of cutters abreast the bridge, not the four at the edges of the boat deck (between the funnels).

The Flyhawk 1/700 kit is labelled as 1914; the Airfix 1/600 version has features of a mixture of dates, eg 6" guns aft (removed in 1915-16 and remounted at foc's'le deck level amidships - the kit depicts them in BOTH locations!). Photos show at least some of the class with boats abeam the boat deck into the 1930s.

The boom boats were carried on the boat deck, which is colloquial term for the area at the after end of fo'c'sle deck level, between and abreast the funnels. Thank you for posting the "as fitted" plans, which show her as fitted, with annotations showing alterations to 1921 and to 1923, and show the five boats to which I was referring.

DavidP,

Thanks for posting the images in your post of 8:58pm 11 April. They prove that the draughtsman did not erroneously; or otherwise, insert the standing and running rigging on the davits of the smaller boom boats as I surmised he might have done. What works of art too!

81542