Calling all Iowa-class (BB-61) fans

[Timmy C]

why do modellers & model manufacturers use those plans?

Because they're convenient and free.

Regardless, it's clear they're wrong for Sutho's needs.

[ModelMonkey]

Sometimes, the only or best references available are the Booklets of General Plans. The best references are shipyard construction drawings and photos. Shipyard construction drawings are the actual blueprints used to build the ship. An example appears below, in this case a forward gun tub on USS Arizona. Note that it is fully dimensioned and extremely precisely drawn. BoGP drawings were used to familiarize personnel with a ship's general features, not intended for construction. BoGP drawings are not fully dimensioned, nor are they precisely drawn. Therefore, real ships can't be built from them.

Photos can normally better confirm the presence and location of specific details actually fit to the ship by the yard or crew. Frequently, details shown on BoGP drawings, and sometimes shipyard construction drawings too, don't match photos of the actual ship. As Timmy said, what actually gets built and what gets drawn may be different. And over time, actual features change. Therefore, determining a ship's actual features and their precise location often requires a bit of sleuthing. This is why the research we conduct in preparation for making a 3D model normally takes much longer than actually designing the model.

BoGP drawings were done by hand often by more than one draftsman. Some draftsmen were clearly more talented and precise than others. It is not uncommon to find the overhead "plan" view in a set of BoGP drawings doesn't quite match the side "elevation" view in the same set. This tends to indicate that the sheets were drawn by different people at different times. And it's a real headache when trying to design a 3D model from 2D plans that don't match. Construction drawings, on the other hand, rarely have this problem. They are supremely precise and stated dimensions in plan views nearly always match stated dimensions in elevation views. Explicitly stated dimensions can be used to check for any distortion in the drawing.

Also, the material the BoGP plans were drawn on may or may not have been stored well and therefore may suffer from distortion or damage. And any distortion may be differential. In other words, one side of a sheet may measure correctly but the other side of the same sheet may be distorted. One side may be true, the other side may be warped.

Still, sometimes BoGP drawings are all we have or the best we have and so that's what we use. They just need to be checked against other available authoritative references for accuracy, if those other references exist at all.

[Sutho]

Thanks for clarification.

I have a work in progress.

I am using a Pontos USS Missouri kit to turn into the USS New Jersey with the Model Monkey rounded bridge.

It looks a little rough at the moment, particularly with the up close shots but I will get it better.

[chuck]

Looks like the Plans are wrong, then. Almost like Booklets of General Plans are for illustrative purposes only and not necessarily reflective of actual practice as-built, and should not be the one and only answer to questions regarding actual ship configurations.

Photos show the Missouri had three 20mm mounts there at Brooklyn naval yard before she left the east coast for the first time, when she was off san francisco where her swoops camp scheme was painted over, during tokyo bay surrender ceremony, and when she hosted President Truman during VJ naval review back in NY.

the famous and impressive 1/48 scale model of Missouri built by Gibbs & Cox and currently in Washington navy yard also show 3 20mm mounts there.

many references still gets this wrong.

Pontos supplies two alternative versions of tread plates for both if you want to do it right and put three 3s there or do it wrong, for the missouri, and put 2 there

[Iceman 29]

USS Iowa inside floating drydock ABSD-2, Seeadler Harbor, Manus, Admiralty Islands, 28 December 1944.

[bigjimslade]

I want to bring up the WWII AA gun configurations for the USS New Jersey 1944-45 with round bridge and top mast added.

I am looking carefully at the 20mm AA guns midships and notice on the lower row there are 5 guns in a line and on the level above it there appears to be only 2 guns side by side. On Missouri there are 3 guns and 5 below.

Can anyone confirm if this is correct. I am noticing multiple differences for the New Jersey to Missouri after the ship was refitted for various occasions in the war. I am trying to model it with the round bridge and top mast.

Both Wisconsin and Missouri had the three 20mm guns crammed into a space for two. Both ships lost a 20mm gun at the 05 level so the number of guns was the same for all four ships (other than Iowa's 40mm for 20mm swap).

The explanation on the USS New Jersey channel was that it was difficult supplying ammunition to a single gun so high up and by itself.

Booklets of General plans are mall director maps.

[smorariu]

I was wondering if the group has had a chance to look at the Joy Yard Missouri - specifically for hull accuracy. At first glance, it looks very accurate to me. I was wondering what the group felt?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbuSfdGQa34



Thanks,
Sergio

[Timmy C]

Martin's review of the kit includes some comments on the hull accuracy here: http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... ssouri.htm

The short of it is, better than the rest, but not perfect.

[bigjimslade]

I was wondering if the group has had a chance to look at the Joy Yard Missouri - specifically for hull accuracy. At first glance, it looks very accurate to me. I was wondering what the group felt?

My comments are in the review.

I will add that the bow looks more accurate than what I have seen and this is the only plastic kit I have seen with the keel.
The plating is massively overscale and wildly inaccurate.

[Iceman 29]

Battleship New Jersey (BB-62) having its radar removed to pass under the Walt Whitman Bridge in Philadelphia on the way to drydock - January 11, 2024.

Source: FaceBook- Battleship New Jersey

[Fliger747]

Good that she is getting a shipyard drydock period! Looks to be about 6 months.

[bigjimslade]

USS New Jersey is setting sail again Thursday March 21, 2014 for the first time in over 30 years.

[BB62vet]

USS New Jersey is setting sail again Thursday March 21, 2014 for the first time in over 30 years.

Is she being towed UP river or DOWN river? I'm guessing the ship's website may have something on the move today??

Hank

[Ronald47]

USS New Jersey is setting sail again Thursday March 21, 2014 for the first time in over 30 years.

2014?

[BB62vet]

It's being towed downriver to the old Philthydelpia Navy Yard - and YES - 2014....a time warp we're moving into the Danger Zone (as the '80s song goes)!!!!

[Ronald47]

[Iceman 29]

[bigjimslade]

Do folks have any idea what it's like typing with three cats on top of you?

[bigjimslade]

only 3, try 4 1yr cats & 3 5 month old kittens.

Only three on top of my chest at a time.
Chloe, Angela, Samson, Anthony, Priscilla, Muffin, Paprika, Jalape�o, Tabasco, & Habanero in bed. (A lot of shelter naming there)

[Fliger747]

According to a NAVWEPS article only Wisconsin has the barn door system installed, most likely as an experiment. In their 80's reactivation Wisconsin was the only one who had loose rudder issues.