Calling all IJN Carrier fans (class comparisons)

[Dan K]

Boy, that is an interesting question, something that would never have occurred to me. Why invest those extra resources in a subpar vessel?

And yet, it seems you are on to something. I did my best to play around with Photoshop, and it looks like all those mounts are covered with the enclosed smoke shielding, as you thought. Plus, I found a relatively recent illustration of Chuyo. The author obviously has come to the same conclusion.

[TZoli]

For those liking the Shinano, here are my two interpretations:

As sunk:
https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/IJ ... -858463208

and as re-designed as a carrier:
https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/IJ ... -858298562

[JamesAPrattIII]

I am building a 1/700 Waveline model of the IJN carrier Kaiyo I bought it many years ago. Has anyone built this kit? If so do you have any advise ect. The flight deck you have to build from a sheet of plastic card. You need to scratch build the radio masts. other platforms have to be cut out of plastic card. I am planning to build the kit as commissioned. with 8 triple 25mm mounts. I will paint the ship grey with wood decks and the red and white stern.

[Bayuro]

Hello Dan K, It's been a long time since I last posted here. Currently I pre-ordered an Aoshima 1/700 Chuyo kit online. Yes that particular kit I told you about last time. When my kit arrives I'm attempting to make it look more accurate by modifying the bridge part which is looked kinda simplified and I also attempting to modify it's AA battery at the time just before her sinking. Unfortunately, I have insufficient references and I'm not satisfied on the one's provided by Google. As far as I know you're the only one who might help me by providing some line drawings of Taiyo class especially the bridge part and of course the configuration of their AA batteries. You're help will be appreciated. Thank you.

[Dan K]

Interestingly enough, we addressed some of this further above, but let me address some of your questions here.

If you are planning to build Chuyo:

She was the last of the sisters to be converted to a CVE. Her conversion began in July, 1942 and was completed at the end of November. In the wake of the Midway fiasco, she was given a much heavier defensive armament than her sisters. She carried 4 twin Type 89 12.7cm/40 mounts as well as 10 triple 25mmm AA mounts. One Type 89 and three 25mm mounts on the aft, starboard side were enclosed in smoke shields like the front line carriers.

Based on photos of Taiyo in Sept, 1943, it is a near certainty that her deck was covered with a latex finish instead of wood planking at her sinking. In fact, it's likely that, unlike Taiyo, Chuyo never had planking for her flight deck.

If you haven't already done so, I would highly recommend that you view Jaroslaw Kieliszek's (Jarekk) very detailed W-I-P build of sister Unyo. Many questions that you have about details have likely been addressed there. If not, then ask away.

Jarekk's build: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=164317

Some references below.

[Bayuro]

Interestingly enough, we addressed some of this further above, but let me address some of your questions here.

If you are planning to build Chuyo:

She was the last of the sisters to be converted to a CVE. Her conversion began in July, 1942 and was completed at the end of November. In the wake of the Midway fiasco, she was given a much heavier defensive armament than her sisters. She carried 4 twin Type 89 12.7cm/40 mounts as well as 10 triple 25mmm AA mounts. One Type 89 and three 25mm mounts on the aft, starboard side were enclosed in smoke shields like the front line carriers.

Based on photos of Taiyo in Sept, 1943, it is a near certainty that her deck was covered with a latex finish instead of wood planking at her sinking. In fact, it's likely that, unlike Taiyo, Chuyo never had planking for her flight deck.

If you haven't already done so, I would highly recommend that you view Jaroslaw Kieliszek's (Jarekk) very detailed W-I-P build of sister Unyo. Many questions that you have about details have likely been addressed there. If not, then ask away.

Jarekk's build: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=164317

Some references below.

Wow! This is what I really need. I'm so new at this forum I didn't immediately noticed about Jarekk's build. This will definitely help building my kit. Thanks for everything Dan K.

[Dan K]

You are most welcome.

By coincidence, I happen to be reading about these CVE's in the new Lengerer book (pricey, but full of info: https://daviddoylebooks.com/nonus-ships ... y-volume-2 ). One point is that these ships were all equipped with arrestor cables, contrary to some reports.

Two other things become apparent as to their relative ineffectiveness as combat units.

One is their low top speed of 21-22 knots. This limited the size of the strike group that could be launched at any given time. A slower top end meant that more flight deck length was needed for takeoff, which in turn meant less attack planes could be spotted for a strike. I can't find actual numbers, but I suspect six B5N2s might be the maximum number of attack aircraft that could be spotted for launch. Plus some fighters.

Compare that with some of the strike packages launched from Ryujo, which was a comparatively sized ship with a slightly shorter flight deck, but 7-8 knots greater top speed at 29 knots. Her first wave in the attack on the Aleutians was composed of 15 B5Ns and 3 Zeros.

The other point, which is probably even more critical, is the lack of experienced, qualified pilots for these ships. Given the limited parameters of the Japanese pilot training programs, there were too few new pilots with adequate training coming online even by late 1942. Any good newbie was siphoned off to the fleet carriers. Those sent to the CVEs had to continue their training onboard, when circumstances allowed it. As in when these ships were not acting as aircraft transports.

The Lengerer book gives an example aboard Taiyo early in 1942 when two Zeros were lost with their pilots in good weather and calm conditions, when both planes missed the arrestor cables upon landing. Not sure these just crashed, or just went over the side.

Just thought it was interesting to note.

[boogie25]

1/2000 IJN Carriers

More:
https://cyberboogie.wixsite.com/aircraf ... by-side-10

[Bayuro]

Hello Dan K, I don't know if you already discovered it but I just want to share this YouTube channel https://m.youtube.com/@teikoku_R to you. It has 3D models of Imperial Japanese Navy ships. By chance it also includes the Taiyo class with stunning up-to-date details that eluded us for a very long time. I hope you have time to check it out and I wanna know your opinion.

I deliberately stop my construction of my Chuyo so I can search some reliable sources or references. I'm thinking that maybe these YouTube channel might have nailed it.

[Dan K]

I haven't looked closely at these clips, but the one I viewed with the three Taiyo sisters erroneously showed Chuyo in camouflage, and Unyo with an incorrect main battery.

[Bayuro]

By the way Dan, it seems that Jarekk is also attempting to make Shinyo out of Aoshima Taiyo kits. I wonder how is it now?

[Bayuro]

I haven't looked closely at these clips, but the one I viewed with the three Taiyo sisters erroneously showed Chuyo in camouflage, and Unyo with an incorrect main battery.

Yeah, until now I'm still wondering how Chuyo already have camouflage as early as 1943 just before she got sunk but I've seen lots of drawings of it with flight deck camo with multiple "s" like patterns. Regardless of the camouflage, what is your opinion on Chuyo's 3d model's details like AA batteries, accessories etc.?

When it comes to Unyo the YouTube channel's 3d model has standard dual mount 12.7 cm/40 Type 89 heavy AA guns contrast to Jarekk's build which still has single mounts but at least both the 3d model and Jarekk's have standard late-war camo similar to Zuikaku and Unryu sisters.

[Bayuro]

I haven't looked closely at these clips, but the one I viewed with the three Taiyo sisters erroneously showed Chuyo in camouflage, and Unyo with an incorrect main battery.

Yeah, until now I'm still wondering how Chuyo already have camouflage as early as 1943 just before she got sunk but I've seen lots of drawings of it with flight deck camo with multiple "s" like patterns. Regardless of the camouflage, what is your opinion on Chuyo's 3d model's details like AA batteries, accessories etc.?

When it comes to Unyo the YouTube channel's 3d model has standard dual mount 12.7 cm/40 Type 89 heavy AA guns contrast to Jarekk's build which still has single mounts but at least both the 3d model and Jarekk's have standard late-war camo similar to Zuikaku and Unryu sisters.

Oops! Duplicate post. My internet is kinda shaky and unresponsive. When I refreshed it, the next thing I know my post got duplicated. Sorry about that...

[Dan K]

Chuyo definitely did not carry camouflage. She was sunk before camo experiments were conducted.

Chuyo's 3d model's details like AA batteries, accessories etc.?

Sources don't entirely agree on her as sunk armament, at least with regard her 25mm AA. I am of the opinion that the three powered turrets on the starboard side were never changed from twin to triple - too much work and use of resources. Certainly, the three mounts on the ports side were changed to triples, and two more added to the stern. The mounts at the bow were twins, but the area is small, so it is possible that these were twin 13mm instead of 25mm. I'm not sure.

It's almost a certainty she carried two Type 94HA directors to control her 12.7cm mounts, one per side. Anything less would render the mounts ineffective. Other details would be like her sisters.

it seems that Jarekk is also attempting to make Shinyo out of Aoshima Taiyo kits. I wonder how is it now?

He hasn't posted in a long time. I can't say what's become of the build. He's probably been busy.

[Dan K]

Actually, she may have carried two triple 25mm as the bows. The Fukui schematic book show Unyo in June 1944 with triples up front, so it was feasible.

[Bayuro]

Chuyo definitely did not carry camouflage. She was sunk before camo experiments were conducted.

So you telling me that every drawing of Chuyo with camouflage deck from the internet are just merely paper plans? Okay but I admit Chuyo is much cooler to look at with camouflage deck.

Sources don't entirely agree on her as sunk armament, at least with regard her 25mm AA. I am of the opinion that the three powered turrets on the starboard side were never changed from twin to triple - too much work and use of resources. Certainly, the three mounts on the ports side were changed to triples, and two more added to the stern. The mounts at the bow were twins, but the area is small, so it is possible that these were twin 13mm instead of 25mm. I'm not sure.

It's almost a certainty she carried two Type 94HA directors to control her 12.7cm mounts, one per side. Anything less would render the mounts ineffective. Other details would be like her sisters.

The details of every Taiyo class sisters are very vague indeed. Sources varied differently. I noticed that some sources depicts the ships have conspicuous protruding side plates on the hangar part of the hull. Is that true?

He hasn't posted in a long time. I can't say what's become of the build. He's probably been busy.

Sad to hear that. But it would be nice to see a finished model of Shinyo made out of Aoshima Taiyo.

[Dan K]

every drawing of Chuyo with camouflage deck from the internet are just merely paper plans?

Correct. You do have one, possibly two other sisters to choose from.

have conspicuous protruding side plates on the hangar part of the hull. Is that true?

I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to. Can you be more specific?

But it would be nice to see a finished model of Shinyo made out of Aoshima Taiyo

I suppose that you could try to PM him, to see what that model's status was.

[Bayuro]

Here's what I meant protruding. It looks kinda additional armor or something, I'm not sure. By the way, the image came from Rarebooksjapan.

[FFG-7]

won't be armor as wrong location & would make the ship top heavy, maybe a ledge/walkway?

[Dan K]

maybe a ledge/walkway?

Correct. It's a catwalk.