Gordon Bjorklund wrote:Hi Dan, I would say it is safe to say that Enterprise was not painted Ms 1 during that time period. (3/40-4/41)
The first picture of Enterprise painted Ms 1 is dated June 1941. So we can say that Enterprise was painted Ms 1 after the movie "Dive Bomber" was shot aboard the ship April 1941.
Dan is that the time period that you will be doing yor prewar ship in?
Gordon
Thanks, Gordon! I am modeling Yorktown here, and in researching its history, I decided to build in prewar configuration. The Navy issued orders for Measure One paint-ups in March of 1941. Yorktown had hers applied in May at Bermuda; Ranger and Wasp had theirs done by April, and I was curious about this paint-up not appearing in your chronology.
I plan to build Enterprise as well (I have hulls in progress for both ships), but I will be rendering Big E in a later period than Yorky. I have chosen two time frames for my CV-5, both are prior to her wearing Measure One.
Also, is there a ready-to-use paint available in the "mahogany" deck color these ships wore in their early days, or at least a reference, perhaps S&S ?
Gordon, you are too kind! Expert? Heck, I'm not sure I was ever a "pert" to begin with, LOL! Much of the info I've put forth was gathered over a period of years from photos and a few official documents, as well as secondary sources. I've also been fortunate to have had contact with former ENTERPRISE sailors who kept track of things in personal diaries. Whatever the source, if info proves reliable, I'm only too happy to share it with anyone who has an interest in the Big E.
Dan: That mahogany stain can be found in White Ensign Models' ColourCoats range, available directly from them, or through Snyder and Short. The yellow lines and lettering are in a color very close to, if not exactly, the Orange Yellow used on the upper wings of aircraft at that time. Hope that helps.
I'm kind of a newbie, but am glad I found this string. Wow, what a wealth of information! Gordon's posting in November is really helpful, I'm printing it out now!
I'm planning on doing the 1/350 Hornet-Enterprise conversion. I know this is heresy, but other than refining the lines of the bow I'm going to ignore the hull issues. Gotta pick my battles.
Otherwise, I have the Nautilus deck and island and L'Arsenal 20's and quad 40's. As far as references I have the Shipcraft, Classic Warships and In Action books as well as Stafford's book and "And Then There Was One".
My big question is the paint scheme. Chesneau and Gordon seem to indicate the Big E was still Sea Blue (5-S) at the end of 1942. Classic Warships (and other info I've seen on line) say that 5-S was gone by then and she was in Navy Blue (5-N). I know this is kinda poking a hornet's nest (get it, hornet-Hornet? ) but what do you all think? I actually HAVE the BWN kit that will be in 5-N, so I'm kind of hoping for 5-S for the '42 version. Bit of a contrast.
Thanks for any more help, what you have so far is fantastic! I'm constantly dissapointed that this most significant ship has been sort of ignored with all these new releases coming out. Well, we'll just do it ourselves!
I'm sorry for the confusion of my post. I have changed my mind on the color of Enterprise. My origanal post had Enterprise painted 5-N Navy Blue
during April 1942. I now think she was painted 5-S Sea Blue. The ship's site http://www.cv6.org/ lists her as Sea Blue also. So when I changed the color for the Tokyo Raid to Sea Blue I didn't update the later time period.
I have read the other posts also that say 5-S Sea Blue was gone at this time and 5-N Navy Blue was in. Navy Blue 5-N was in use as early as Feburary. Both Yorktown and Hornet were painted Ms.12- graded with 5-S Sea Blue. By late Feb. 1942 Hornet has been repainted Ms.12-modified using 5-N Navy Blue.
Here is what I think now, I think.
Noverber 41/March 42 Ms 1 Dark Gray 5-D , Light Gray 5-L
April / June 42 Ms 11 Sea Blue 5-S
July 42 / July 43 Ms 11 w/Navy Blue 5-N
Last month I repainted the "Tokyo Raid" Enterprise I'm working on from Navy Blue to Sea Blue
I take it your Hornet-Enterprise conversion will be for a "Santa Cruz"/"Guadalcanal" Enterprise.
Your post was a great deal of help! Yes, my plan is to do a Santa Cruz, only US carrier in the South Pacific, Enterprise. So I take it your current thinking is that she was Navy Blue at that time?
BD, just so you don't feel overly confused about this Sea Blue vs. Navy Blue issue, the bottom line is that until someone comes up with an official document from, say, Commander Carriers, Pacific of the Navy Yard, Pearl Harbor, no one really knows with certainty which color ENTERPRISE wore from April, 1942 to July, 1943. I think the informed guesses that you see posted here are about as close as we're going to get until somebody finds concrete, documented proof. Just my two cents to add to this discussion: The Big E needed considerable work after the pounding she took at Eastern Solomons in August, 1942, and it's likely that she was repainted in the course of that work. Given that 5-N had pretty much replaced 5-S by that time, I feel that you'd be very safe in assuming that she was in 5-N at Santa Cruz. Hope that helps.
Oh boy...........CV-6 painted into Ms1 during a May 1941 yard period and she also had a piece fracture from the base of one mast *after* they painted her into Ms1. I had that piece in hand today and will be shooting a photo tomorrow.....it is in 5-D (yes it will be Munsell matched sometime in the next week as well). She also had an experimental paint scheme at one point but you'll have to wait for publication on that one.
Oh boy...........CV-6 painted into Ms1 during a May 1941 yard period and she also had a piece fracture from the base of one mast *after* they painted her into Ms1. I had that piece in hand today and will be shooting a photo tomorrow.....it is in 5-D (yes it will be Munsell matched sometime in the next week as well). She also had an experimental paint scheme at one point but you'll have to wait for publication on that one.
_________________
This is the second time this week I have heard about an Experimental Paint Scheme. Very interesting!
How long will we have to wait for publication?
........
BD
When I get to the point of painting my "Santa Cruz" Enterprise, I will paint her Navy Blue 5-N lightened with a light gray color. This will be followed by a dusting of light gray. Then I'll break out the sanding pads and do some scrubbing, to get a well weathered appearance.
Gordon Bjorklund wrote:
This is the second time this week I have heard about an Experimental Paint Scheme. Very interesting!
How long will we have to wait for publication?
Gordon
Probably going to try and get it in the Spring issue of NRJ and hope before then I can find more than the text description and report of the results......in other words a photo would be really nice too. So far I know where the photo isn't..........
How do I get the pen to write here? Now my screen's all smeared with ink.........
I thought that having a full hull Enterprise would be kind of neat. So I bought a Mini Hobby 1/700 Hornet kit off the net. This is supposed to be a
Tamiya knock-off and almost all the parts are the same. I ordered the Hornet kit because I wanted another early flight deck without the rear rolldown cutouts. What I got was Enterprise parts in the Hornet box. Be sure to read the fine print whenever possible. I'm happy to say that I can
use two parts from this kit on my Tamiya Hornet. Here's some pictures
of what you get.
This kit was designed to have a battery powered motor in it. Not included.
It must be the A/C that make this a Hornet kit.
Live and learn.
All this for just $10.00 US.
Gordon
Last edited by Gordon Bjorklund on Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This model is coming along slowly but it does not have to be completed
until next April. I'm waiting for the PE to come from one of this sites sponsers. I've been waiting 3 months now. I've got the a/c gloss coated and ready for decals. these planes (Fujimi) are for the hangar deck. I've ordered some Trumpeter a/c for the flight deck (from a different sponser)
The hull has the first coat of paint on it. The flight deck is ready for weathering.
I'm looking for conformation on the deck stripping, if any, on the Enterprise during the battle of Midway. I have some GMM decals that include the kind of white stripping I need but I can't find any photos with the Stripping at Midway or how weathered they might be.
I'm currently trying to finish up my 1/350 Trumy Hornet to Enterprise conversion that I've been working on and off for years now. I finally dedicated myself to getting her finished but need to get a few more details down. My Conversion includes the Nautilus Bridge conversion and a wooden flight deck. I'm using Tamiya Medium blue for the hull and White Ensign Deck blue 20-b for the decking. I like the contrasting colors better then something like 5N on the hull. Anyways, any help would be muchly apppreciated.
The Big E in Dark Gray, that's very interesting! Still, that sounds like pre-war.
BD
May 1941 was prewar---at least for the USN, which had the comparative luxury of entering yet another global conflict much later than its future allies.
Jon, Have you been to : http://www.cv6.org/ ? In there you will find several pictures of Enterprise during the time period . Here is one of the flight deck.
In this picture the deck looks like it has a fresh coat of stain on it. The white stripes really stand out so they must be new also.
Enterprise got a new paint job in early April while at Pearl Harbor. She was more than likely painted 5-S Sea Blue at that time. It's been written that 5-S Sea Blue weathered very quickly. MY guess is that she looks well weatherd. See the pictures on the cv6 site.
HTH
Gordon
Last edited by Gordon Bjorklund on Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks for getting back so quickly. That is a very good site. I can only make out 2 dashed lines in that photo, though I would have thought that there should have been a centerline line as well. Thanks again.
Jon
Gordon Bjorklund wrote:Jon, Have you been to : http://www.cv6.org/ ? In there you will find several pictures of Enterprise during the time period . Here is one of the flight deck.
In this picture the deck looks like it has a fresh coat of stain on it. The white stripes really stand out so they must be new also.
Enterprise got a new paint job in early April while at Pearl Harbor. She was more than likely painted 5-S Sea Blue at that time. It's been written that 5-S Sea Blue weathered very quickly. MY guess is that she looks well weatherd. See the pictures on the cv6 site.
Gordon Bjorklund wrote:Jon, Have you been to : http://www.cv6.org/ ? In there you will find several pictures of Enterprise during the time period . Here is one of the flight deck.
In this picture the deck looks like it has a fresh coat of stain on it. The white stripes really stand out so they must be new also.
Enterprise got a new paint job in early April while at Pearl Harbor. She was more than likely painted 5-S Sea Blue at that time. It's been written that 5-S Sea Blue weathered very quickly. MY guess is that she looks well weatherd. See the pictures on the cv6 site.
HTH
Gordon
Well Just to report progress, I masked up my wooden nautilus flight deck and painted on the narrow white strips I thought I saw in all these pictures. Then I loaded up a DVD while I was waiting for paint to dry. F4F Wildcat from Aircraft films. In the extra features disk I found some color footage of VF-6 on the Enterprise in April '42 and low and behold if those deck stripes arn't Yellow! I'm pretty familar with John Ford's color footage from the Hornet at the battle of Midway but this was the first time I'd seen film of the Enterprise from early 42 in color. As to if the Deck stripes were painted yellow at Midway I don't know. Any thoughts you other Enterprise-aholics out there?
Jon Halter
Gordon Bjorklund wrote:Jon, Have you been to : http://www.cv6.org/ ? In there you will find several pictures of Enterprise during the time period . Here is one of the flight deck.
In this picture the deck looks like it has a fresh coat of stain on it. The white stripes really stand out so they must be new also.
Enterprise got a new paint job in early April while at Pearl Harbor. She was more than likely painted 5-S Sea Blue at that time. It's been written that 5-S Sea Blue weathered very quickly. MY guess is that she looks well weatherd. See the pictures on the cv6 site.
HTH
Gordon
Well Just to report progress, I masked up my wooden nautilus flight deck and painted on the narrow white strips I thought I saw in all these pictures. Then I loaded up a DVD while I was waiting for paint to dry. F4F Wildcat from Aircraft films. In the extra features disk I found some color footage of VF-6 on the Enterprise in April '42 and low and behold if those deck stripes arn't Yellow! I'm pretty familar with John Ford's color footage from the Hornet at the battle of Midway but this was the first time I'd seen film of the Enterprise from early 42 in color. As to if the Deck stripes were painted yellow at Midway I don't know. Any thoughts you other Enterprise-aholics out there?
Jon Halter
During the Febraury 1942 "hit & run" raids her deck stripes were not white or yellow. It looks like 251N with an overcoat of 250N stain. Before too long I hope to have a DVD out with color footage and this will be on it.
How do I get the pen to write here? Now my screen's all smeared with ink.........
During the Febraury 1942 "hit & run" raids her deck stripes were not white or yellow. It looks like 251N with an overcoat of 250N stain. Before too long I hope to have a DVD out with color footage and this will be on it.
Thanks for the info Ron. Here are some screen caps of the photos I was talking about Though I'm not sure then what exact color the lines are in these pictures.
They look yellow to me but I'm not sure what color 251 or 250 Stain looks like.thanks again and looking forward to your DVD in the future.
I was dinged at many contest because I used yellow instead of white stripes for my Big E Kit. I was told by a deck hand that they were yellow and not white. Hear's the photos that back that up. I wish I had these photos 4 years ago.
A world without science is a world without model ships.
) but what do you all think? I actually HAVE the BWN kit that will be in 5-N, so I'm kind of hoping for 5-S for the '42 version. Bit of a contrast.
Danny DON'T "waterline"...!
