Calling all Shokaku (翔鶴) and Zuikaku (瑞鶴) fans

[98G]

Hi All - I see that there are a number of antennas on this ship. There are longwire antennas
between masts running along the deck and there are smaller antennas on a mast on the island,
including a small crossed-loop forward of the bridge. Is there a reference that points out what
the various antennas are for? I know that the ship had LW, MW, and SW (HF) transmitters and
receivers but I cannot reference detailing the antennas. (I am interested in the ship during the
Battle of Coral Sea before it was fitted with radar.)

Thanks,

Sam

[Dan K]

The round loops in front of and on top of the bridge are RDF (radio direction finding) loops, used to track radio signal transmissions. The small tripod with a whip antenna atop the bridge is a Type 90 wireless telephone antenna (there are at least two of them up there.) Outboard of the bridge on the starboard side, strung between latticework tripod supports attached horizontally to the bridge, and running up to the top of the main mast (not seen below, except for the insulators hanging above the deck between the RDF loop and the bridge front) are more radio wireless antennas, similar to those strung between the four lattice masts further aft along the edges of the flight deck.

HTH.

[98G]

Hi Dan - Thanks. Do you have any further information on the RDF loops or longer antennas?

Sam

[Dan K]

What kind of information are you seeking?

[98G]

Hi Dan - Sure, I am seeking details on exactly which antennas would go to which radio to get a better understanding of how the ship operated.
One can find pictures of American carriers in which each antenna is pointed out with what each did. I am looking for something similar with this
ship.

For instance, those loops on the deck. There are multiple loops. Given the time frame and size, those loops look like they are for medium and
low frequency. Could they rotate?

With regards to the long antennas in the back, what exactly is each for? I believe they were moved down during flight operations, but could
they still be used?

Best,

Sam

[Dan K]

Hi, Sam -

So, there's not a ton of information available that I know of, at least in English.

A description of how the RDF loop/detection system worked can be found in one of the postwar US NavTech reports. See: https://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary ... 20E-05.pdf

Some more information on IJN radio antennas is here: https://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary ... 20E-17.pdf

AFAIK, the long antennas were used for communication with Japan/land and ship based HQs. Reception (and transmission) were more effective when these masts were raised, which was the typical state excepting flight operations. Perhaps more helpful is a recent discussion on the j-aircraft.com shipboard, which discussed IJN shipboard communications. See: https://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php?topic=19012.0

[98G]

Hey Dan - Thanks for all that it was real good. The discussion in j-aircraft was most useful. I have been trying to join that site without success for quite some time now.
I cannot see the images but it was interesting that at the end they seemed to be talking about a antenna on a reel that trailed out of the back of the ship
with the end being a float. I am not sure if that is a detail on models or not.

I am trying to determine with antenna(s) the ship used to transmit on 215 and 500 kHz. According to JM-118 page 45, they used both frequencies.

Which leads me back to those long masts on the ship. It would be interesting to know their length. Whether they are individual wires or whether
they are connected in a "tee." This might give you a better idea of what I am looking for: https://musickpointradio.org/amateur-ra ... z-antenna/

Similar to the above website, I would think that the Japanese would have some sort of tuning box for these antennas. I am not sure if that is modeled or
not.

Sam

[Dan K]

I am not sure if that is a detail on models or not.

I don't have time to review that discussion, but I'm quite sure no such cable was trailed behind a ship, much less be shown on a model.

It would be interesting to know their length.

The illustration below is of the masts aboard Ibuki. Measurements of other vessels is, AFAIK, pretty non-existent, but the assumption has been that most masts were close to this size and distance from each other. There may have been some variations, particularly among the earlier carriers, but solid numbers are hard to come by. The rigging schematic might be simplified.

[98G]

Hi Dan - Thanks, this was brilliant and very useful.

Sam

[EiSeOoNiinJust]

Hi all, new forumian here!

A question regarding the Fujimi 1/350 kits for anyone who has knowledge, are the kits distinctive for the sisters in the class or should I just buy one / scratch built mods needed to make either?

[Timmy C]

Hi all, new forumian here!

A question regarding the Fujimi 1/350 kits for anyone who has knowledge, are the kits distinctive for the sisters in the class or should I just buy one / scratch built mods needed to make either?

They do have different sprues to reflect differences: Zuikaku has one more Z sprue, and has a G, V and W sprue, while Shokaku has a pair of KK sprues. For aircraft, Zuikaku has T and U sprues while Shokaku has R (both share Q and P sprues). You can compare in the instructions scanned on Hobby Search:
Zuikaku: https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10664233
Shokaku: https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10086646

This is not including differences for different releases of each ship.

[Dan K]

To expand on Timmy's reply, the Zuikaku kit(s) have the late war AA and radar platforms that the early war Shokaku does not. Plus different aircraft. Slightly different flight deck decals.

[EiSeOoNiinJust]

Wow, thanks for the detailed info!
Seems I have my work cut out to identify what time to depict the ships and all the changes. For late 1941 might have to get 2 Shokaku's then and modify the changes

[Dan K]

For late 1941, the sisters are all but identical, excepting flight deck markings and the placement of a loudspeaker on Zuikaku's mainmast instead of her island. Both ship's aircraft have white ID stripes on their fuselages, one for Shokaku, two for Zuikaku. Likewise, aircraft tail codes start with El for Shokaku and Ell for Zuikaku.

[EiSeOoNiinJust]

For late 1941, the sisters are all but identical, excepting flight deck markings and the placement of a loudspeaker on Zuikaku's mainmast instead of her island. Both ship's aircraft have white ID stripes on their fuselages, one for Shokaku, two for Zuikaku. Likewise, aircraft tail codes start with El for Shokaku and Ell for Zuikaku.

Can you tell me what happens when we roll forward to 1944?

Also regarding the sisters, good books anyone can recommend? Warship 2015 seems to be one mentioned often

[Dan K]

By June, 1944 at the Battle of the Philippine Sea, the sisters are still nearly identical, and not yet wearing any camouflage (only Zuikaku gains that later in the year as Shokaku was sunk). Both have gained three additional triple 25mmAA mounts and platforms at the bow and stern and there's an additional triple 25mm mount fore and aft the bridge island. Additional crew quarters for the gun crews have also been erected at the bow and stern.

Both ships now wear a Type 21 radar atop the bridge and, most importantly, the Type 94 director that the radar replaced was moved to the port side forward amidships, a few yards aft the other Type 94 director already there. (The Fujimi 1/350 kits do not show this feature, unlike their 1/700 kits. So, this arrangement must be scratch-built.)

Flight deck markings are pretty much unchanged. Air group markings have changed.

There several Japanese publications that are now out of print focused on the Shokakus. A good all-around single volume that has a nice mix of history, technical data, and many photos is the Legends of Warfare title "Shokaku Class Aircraft Carriers" by Hans Legerer and Lars Ahlberg.

https://www.amazon.com/Sh%C5%8Dkaku-Cla ... FbOyEavZzB

[EiSeOoNiinJust]

By June, 1944 at the Battle of the Philippine Sea, the sisters are still nearly identical, and not yet wearing any camouflage (only Zuikaku gains that later in the year as Shokaku was sunk). Both have gained three additional triple 25mmAA mounts and platforms at the bow and stern and there's an additional triple 25mm mount fore and aft the bridge island. Additional crew quarters for the gun crews have also been erected at the bow and stern.

Both ships now wear a Type 21 radar atop the bridge and, most importantly, the Type 94 director that the radar replaced was moved to the port side forward amidships, a few yards aft the other Type 94 director already there. (The Fujimi 1/350 kits do not show this feature, unlike their 1/700 kits. So, this arrangement must be scratch-built.)

Flight deck markings are pretty much unchanged. Air group markings have changed.

There several Japanese publications that are now out of print focused on the Shokakus. A good all-around single volume that has a nice mix of history, technical data, and many photos is the Legends of Warfare title "Shokaku Class Aircraft Carriers" by Hans Legerer and Lars Ahlberg.

https://www.amazon.com/Sh%C5%8Dkaku-Cla ... FbOyEavZzB

Thank you very much.

Seems that if I want both ships, then maybe my best option is to do Shokaku in the standard camo and Zuikaku as painted 1944 with the green camo, either with wood deck or the camo pattern

[Dan K]

It depends on your time frame(s). A 1944 fit will still require you to relocate the Type 94 director. Btw, a June 1944 fit is still standard gray for both ships.

[EiSeOoNiinJust]

It depends on your time frame(s). A 1944 fit will still require you to relocate the Type 94 director. Btw, a June 1944 fit is still standard gray for both ships.

Right, that Type 94 should be doable, just have to make a big note about it. Seems 3D prints are a possibility also

Did Shokaku ever receive the green camo? I read that Zuikaku was painted in it after the sinking of Shokaku and there are drawings that show Shokaku having it

[Dan K]

Did Shokaku ever receive the green camo?

No, she did not. Zuikaku gained her camo during late summer, 1944, after repairs from damage incurred at the Phillipine Sea.

Oh! That reminds me, her upper mainmast configuration was changed due to damage there. Her main yardarms were angled back and slightly upward, like the Unryus. So, I think you'll need to alter the kit pieces for those as well. And she gained the AA rockets.