HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Moderators: BB62vet, MartinJQuinn, JIM BAUMANN, Jon, Dan K

User avatar
Rui Matos
Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:42 pm
Location: Lisbon, Portugal

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Post by Rui Matos »

Marijn...

I usually don't get speechless... but I am now!
AMAZING!!!!

NOTE: I was a little bit concerned, that after all the master work you have done with the models so far, the "tricky part" would be to make the sails look convincing... Well, I was worrying for nothing, you managed to make them super-realistic!
Congratulations!

Cheers,
Rui
Ship Modelers of the World UNITE
marijn van gils
Posts: 2691
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:24 am
Location: Belgium

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Post by marijn van gils »

Thank you very much Rui!
For sure this was one of the biggest technical challenges of the project indeed, since I hadn’t done anything like this before… And of course, battle damage adds another dimension to it!



I will post the step-by-step on the sails in several separate posts, to spread the computer work a bit for myself… ;)


First step: research!

Sails and rigging of period ships were rather daunting to me, as I was a complete novice.
But as with anything, the right literature and a fair amount of time to study the topic help to make everything make sense, enabling a methodical execution on the model.

These are the main books I used:
Image

James Lees is the standard work on English warship rigging, and generally considered to be very accurate. It is however a rather academic book and requires some basic knowledge on rigging (for example: the terminology and the function of each line are not explained).

L. Petersson is much more accessible for the novice. It shows the run of each individual line in separate drawings, making everything very easy to understand. It is however based on only one period ship model, and is therefore not to be relied on for every ship of every period. Luckily, the period depicted in the book is very close to Trafalgar, but the ship is a smaller type.

The AOTS book by John McKay solves this partly, as it focuses on Victory. It is an excellent book, but the rigging drawings require previous knowledge too. Too much lines are shown together in too few drawings, making them hard to understand for the novice. Also, it is based on the restored ship and can therefore not be trusted completely. But it includes a comprehensive table with the dimensions of the lines and blocks, which is super handy.

Longridges’ book is nice too, but a bit dated and I didn’t use it very much. But it includes some beautiful drawings of the lower and topmast tops, which help a lot to understand these complex areas.

So, I ended up using the books this way:
- Petersson to wrap my head around the rigging and each line in it;
- McKay to translate certain items to Victory;
- Lees to check each line for accuracy, and adjust if needed;
- The table in McKay for line and block dimensions.

In McKay, the lines are measured in circumference, and in inches, like period practice. But of course, for modelling purposes, I want diameters in millimetres! Luckily, this was easily calculated in excel:
Image

All of this enabled me to draw a set of rigging plans:
Image

I traced the ships contours from Longridges’ plans, and scanned and printed it to 1/300 scale a number of times.
Next, I drew only one or two types of lines on each plan. This keeps things clear and easy to find.
I noted the diameter of each line and size of each block on the plans, so I don’t have to go back to the books/tables while building. I also noted or drew belaying points and some details for the same reason.

The finished plans are not only super convenient tools while building, but drawing them also helped me tremendously in understanding the rig.


Drawing a set of rigging plans like this was a tip I got from these books from Philip Reed, and it proved immensely helpful!
Image

These are wonderful books BTW! (his ‘Building a Miniature Navy Board Model’ book is great too)
Besides inspiration, they were instrumental in getting my head wrapped around rigging a small scale model. I used a lot of the techniques explained in these books (especially the newer one: ‘period ship modelmaking’).

Also, besides knowing what goes where, rigging requires a well thought-out order of operations to maintain access. In general, you work from the centreline of the ship outwards, and from low to high.
But a square rig is complex, and the Philip Reed books also helped me figuring this out.

But in the end, I also find myself making this kind of lists, to work out the order of installation for each line:
Image

These are only a couple; I have made many more along the way! ;)
This is just a working tool for myself: I often change the sequence while working when I think another way may be easier after all. :)


And finally, back to the sails!

Paper templates were drawn, cut and test-fitted. The shapes were based on Lees, and the dimensions made to fit the spars and masts of the model.
On the front and rear of each template, the location of the reinforcing cloths and cringles are drawn (all based on Lees).
Image
User avatar
wefalck
Posts: 2109
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:04 pm
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Post by wefalck »

You have done now already a lot (most?) of the work on HMS VICTORY, but almost a must is also

LEVER, D. (1819): The Young Sea Officer’s Sheet Anchor.- 124 p., London (reprint 1963 by E.W. Sweetman & Co., New York).

There should be this second or the first edition as digital copy on the net. It was meant as textbook for midshipmen, i.e. boys of 16+ years of age, who became trainee naval officers with often little previous (practical) exposure to maritme matters. It is important, because it not only tells how things should look like, when at their place, but also how to get them, where they should be. For me this is very important for modelling - I have to understand how something works, before I can model it.

It would be interesting to undertake one day a sort of 'criminal' investigation on who copied/stole their illustrations from whom, as the pictures all look familiar. Perhaps Steele (a compilator and publisher, rather than author) was the origine or they may even go back to the 'Enciclopdie' of Diderot & d'Alembert ... I think Lees also drew on Lever.
Last edited by wefalck on Wed Jul 29, 2026 3:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Eberhard

Former chairman Arbeitskreis historischer Schiffbau e.V. (German Association for Shipbuilding History)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Image Image Image Image
marijn van gils
Posts: 2691
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:24 am
Location: Belgium

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Post by marijn van gils »

Thank you Eberhart!

You are right, I should get Lever too! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:
I would prefer to get a paper copy though if possible.

Lees gives an overview of his sources in the introduction. Besides contemporary literature, he also used contemporary models, manuscipts, paintings and drafts of the National Maritime Museum (he worked as restorer/caretaker on their model collection). But regarding literature on the late 18th century, he states Steele as his primary literary source indeed. And he does use a number of drawings of Lever, but this is always indicated in the captions. The great majority of drawings seem to be his own (they have a different style than Lever or Steele). Of course, the content of them is likely based on Steele and Lever (and other sources for other periods), but he may have also referred to contempary models etc.
User avatar
wefalck
Posts: 2109
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:04 pm
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

Post by wefalck »

Yes, I had the book by Lees since it was first published and read it. Contemporary models can be problematic, as they were often (re)rigged or restored at later times, using the practises and knowledge of the time. It is quite difficult to determine the actual age of rigging matieral and when the work was carried out.
Eberhard

Former chairman Arbeitskreis historischer Schiffbau e.V. (German Association for Shipbuilding History)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Image Image Image Image
Post Reply

Return to “Works in Progress”