The Ship Model Forum

It seems that I've been bitten by the Borodino-class bug!! After picking up the Zvezda 1/350 Orel and the White Ensign Borodino-class photo-etch for this class, I'm hooked! I've already put the hull together, filled and sanded the seams, put on a coat of primer and dry fit the decks, as seen in this picture (ISW USS Illinois in the background). At this point, I'm trying to gather information about the ship before I get any farther along - I also want to finish the Illinois before really delving into this project.

The model is decent, albiet the plastic is a little thick. The overall quality reminds me of Heller or later Airfix kits. I can't speak for the accuracy of the model, because I don't know much about this class of ships. The photo-etch is outstanding. I haven't seen the GMM set, so I can't compare the two, but the WEM set has all sorts of goodies on it, which should really bring the kit to life.

Couple of questions: It looks like what I can see in pictures, these ships were REALLY black. What paints are folks using on theirs? Additionally, the instructions call for the steel decks to be "Sea Blue". Does anyone know if that is accurate? I see Jim Baumann painted the decks of his 1/700 Borodino a reddish linoleum color. What recommendations does anyone have for the underwater hull color? Was it red or green? Was there a boot stripe?

Hopefully someone else is building this kit too. If so, post your progress pics here. Look forward to further discussion on these "bulldog-ugly" class of ships.

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

Hi Martin,
according with the book "Tsushima" by Frank Thies it seems that russians predrednought of that era were absolutely black, anyway looking at photos they shows heavy signs of weathering, so maybe it will be better to start with a very dark flat grey to be able to apply some black oil washing after the first hand.

Just my though, and good luck with your Borodino, I love Russians predreadnought, but I've still an huge stack of Rn and Regia Marina models to be built before to start with them

Dino

These Battleships are looking well and had a glorious history.
During Tsushima, they suffered very great damages during the 3 first phases of the battle.
Kniaz Suvarov
Borodino
Alexander III
sunk at about the same moment 7.20pm
Nearly all of their crew were lost.

After 5 hours of battle, the Suvarov without funnels, masts & uperworks completly destroyed, making again about 10kts, engage the torpedo boats with only a 3" gun...

These Battleships had a very good concept, very hard building & their crew a glorious end.


Jef

_________________
Current 1/700 WL
HMS Repulse

Martin,

Whenever I need to use black on a warship, I go with a really dark gray. I have used the MM Interior Black, tire black, Panzer Gray, etc. I've use these combos on Civil War ironclads and it looks fairly convincing.

-Devin
p.s. When do you find time to build all these freakin' models?

_________________
We like our history sanitized and theme-parked and self-congratulatory, not bloody and angry and unflattering. - Jonathan Yardley

Martin,

I would go with Tyre Black (WEM make it) with shading of either Paynes grey or Lamp black.

No boot strip on them.

I would go with a reddish-brown for the steel decks, as for the anit-fouling no idea. I'll see if I've got any reference on that.

Be careful what you are getting into. Once you start on predreadnoughts, you won't want to stop. Sadly, I know that to be true, must have built about 30 of 'em!

Cheers,

Rob Kernaghan

Yes, I can see I'm getting afflicted with the disease already...I picked up a couple more ISW pre-dreadnoughts (Ohio and Kearsarge) at the last IPMS show I went too!

Thanks for the tip on the Tyre Black, I was going to order some PE from WEM today, I'll include the paint now too.



You don't see any of them actually finished, do you?

As for finding time...I build at work, during my lunch. I have an office, so I close the door and work for about 45 to an hour.

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

Well, what I know from russian sources, all second pacific squadron ships were black with red hull bottom.

See the painting scheme at:
http://tsushima.org.ru/tth_plan_orel_01.htm
http://tsushima.org.ru/tth_plan_suvorov_01.htm

And a few plans are available on that page (links at bottom, as page is in russian)
http://tsushima.org.ru/tth_russ_orel.htm

A few photos of her:
Orel during launch and 2nd Squadron
http://tsushima.org.ru/foto_russ_orel_do.htm

Orel - japanese photos of her directly after capture, showing battle damage
http://tsushima.org.ru/foto_russ_orel_posle.htm

Orel as japanese Iwami
http://tsushima.org.ru/fotoarhiv/russia ... _ivami.htm

Alexander III in Baltic sea
http://tsushima.org.ru/foto_russ_aleksandr3.htm

Suvorov before the voyage:
http://tsushima.org.ru/foto_russ_suvorov.htm

Have fun!

If you'll need help with russian, dont hestitate to ask me ;o)

Cheers,
Petr

Thanks for the links Petr....they should keep me busy for a while!

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

Well,

I´ve got nearly all the plans I need, the WEM set should be in the mail soon, now for the remaining color questions:

So it´s red bottom, no boot topping, black hull, reddish-brown steel decks, yellow funnels with black tops. So far so good.

What about the wood decks? I somewhere heard they carried extra coal supplies on the open decks during the trip around the world. That must have been a fine mess and add a lot to the hull streaking. How would you paint those decks if you depicted the model prior to the battle?

Upon sailing, the ships were fairly new and should have been in a clean overall state, with light tan decks, I´d suppose.

Any other suggestions?

Curious

Frank

Well, I think I'll check my books - Im not sure whether the ships were repainted in Camranh or not. If yes, they would look rather clean during Tsushima, but if not repaired they would look like a mess....

I would give the deck heavy drybrushing and washing, especially around the coal ports...

_________________
Model kit manufacturer and distributor: https://b2b.modellbaudienst.de
Distributor of Very Fire, Snowman, Milania Master Korabel, Falkonet, Microdisign in EU
1:350 HMS Diana 1794 - nearly released
Further kits in preparation.

Immediate post-Tsushima photos of Orel show her to have been uhm, ahh, crusty around the waterline.
Whether or not that "crust" was purely dried salt water, or other filth, it shows up as a very light color, and is present on all the 2nd Pacific Squadron survivor photos I've seen.

Yeah, I also checked and seems they did no repainting in Camranh.. just a small cleanup.. So heavy weathering sounds to be right

_________________
Model kit manufacturer and distributor: https://b2b.modellbaudienst.de
Distributor of Very Fire, Snowman, Milania Master Korabel, Falkonet, Microdisign in EU
1:350 HMS Diana 1794 - nearly released
Further kits in preparation.

Hi Folks
I m new to the forum..... so hi to all.
I too am a fan of these pre-dreanaught battleships

Anyway I am considering building "Borodino" in 72nd scale so I need a couple of things to get started.....

1stly...... plans, I've located some larger scale plans on modelyard.narod.ru are they any good....or are there an other sources?

2ndly.......... a plastic model which I can build too get a feel for the ship. I have in mind the Zevzda "OREL" or "KNYAZ SUVOROV" which ship would be closest to Borodino and what are the differences?

3rdly......If I am going to build it I might as well get a "brass etch kit" for detailing, I think the Zevzda kit must be newer as I cant find any listing or it. I know White Ensign have set for another maker but in the same scale, would this be suitable?

4thly....pictures/referance material are there any good books easily accessable out there on this class of battleship .

Thanks for the hints and links already mentioned on this thread.
Regards From "Down Under" Australia ....... Mike

1st
I dont know the plans of the modelyard.narod.ru ...
However, I can give you the electronic very detailed (1:100) plans for Tsesarewitsch, which was a prototype for Borodino class. They are also freely available at navarin.ru (88 A4 size pages, or 5 A0 size pages). At navarin you can also buy a 1:200 plans for Borodino

You can use Eastern Express Borodino or Suvorov, or Zvezda's Suvorov or Orel. Im not sure whether the kits are related, but they appeared about the same time...

PE - i think yes, it would be suitable.

_________________
Model kit manufacturer and distributor: https://b2b.modellbaudienst.de
Distributor of Very Fire, Snowman, Milania Master Korabel, Falkonet, Microdisign in EU
1:350 HMS Diana 1794 - nearly released
Further kits in preparation.

Hi PetrOs

Thanks for the advice it certainly helps...my only problem is a I can't read Russian or speak it, so I am at langauge disadvantage when browsing the site "navarin" which is totally Russian. No pics even to give you hints!!!!

Is it possible to include a link to the "200 scale Borodino plans" from the site so I can "check them out".

As well many thanks for the generous offer with the plans "Tsesarewitsch"
I will be doing some homework on this vessel. I will get back to you. To me this is one of the great advantages of Forum helping builders come in contact with other builders on the other side of the world!
Regards & Many thanks .......Mike from Australia

Hey

I checked my books and eBooks, and found 2 russian-language books regarding Borodino Class, one in paper form, and 1 scan, done by me when I moved from Russia to Germany. One from Gribovski, one from Melnikov. Both with many photos, plans, etc. I can send you the scans, if you drop me a PM.

_________________
Model kit manufacturer and distributor: https://b2b.modellbaudienst.de
Distributor of Very Fire, Snowman, Milania Master Korabel, Falkonet, Microdisign in EU
1:350 HMS Diana 1794 - nearly released
Further kits in preparation.

And I forgot the link to the Borodino plan set at navarin
http://www.navarin.ru/product_info.php/products_id/124

Publisher is Garmashev, whom I used to talk to a few years ago, and he made a good impression on me, as a man doing tough research...

_________________
Model kit manufacturer and distributor: https://b2b.modellbaudienst.de
Distributor of Very Fire, Snowman, Milania Master Korabel, Falkonet, Microdisign in EU
1:350 HMS Diana 1794 - nearly released
Further kits in preparation.

Hi PetrOs
Just checking you got my details via PM....any problems just let me know.
Thanks for all your assistance.
Regards from Australia
Mike

Hi,
The book by Gribovsky has the most accurate plans of Borodino (plan and a coloured profile on the cover, as well as several cross-sections).
The book by Melnikov contains a set of plans of Orel.
Both ships have been built by the same yard, so they were close in appearance. Nevertheless, they have several key differencies - form of stem, anchor shelves, funnel caps and deckhouses on spardeck - 2 at Borodino an 1 at Orel.
Check pics at navsource.narod.ru
Please keep in mind, that Garmashev has published two sets of plans of Borodino - the first one is incorrect and represents a "hybrid" of Borodino and Orel, the second one is labeled as "corrected" but I have not seen it by myself.
Cheers,
Dmitry

Borodino:
http://navsource.narod.ru/photos/01/027/index.html