Calling all Essex-class (WWII configuration) fans

[Tracy White]

The Essexes were similar; they wanted to keep the top speeds high so they needed a very narrow bow. The ships, both long and short-hull, had problems with the bow slapping waves in rough seas; I've got a document from Wasp (that references one from Intrepid) that details damage to the bow structure (not the flight deck, by the way) due to high seas. I'll post it one of these days..... it's about halfway done but slow going....

[Werner]

It's important to remember the vanished world in which these ships were designed. A new destroyer or cruiser could delay the blueprints for a battleship or carrier. Draftsmen were a key asset for naval production.

If they could save a few weeks of drafting by shamelessly copying some of the shapes or lines of CV 5 in the design of CV 9, you can believe they did so.

Drafting was such a critical step that the Clevelands almost failed. They borrowed the Helena hull lines while shifting the superstructure forward to allow for the different armament. Late additions made the ships too topheavy. A "slight of hand" change to the blueprints saved the day without having to redraw the lot. They just changed the width at the waterline, which accounts for their peculiar, French-looking tumblehome.

[Pieter]

The decision to have open or closed hangar decks was a difficult one and the USN and RN both produced a number of designs with both styles. Probably the most difficult ones from a structural design point of view were Midway and Malta which had armoured decks over an open hangar. As in the open hangar design the hangar deck is the strength deck the hull girder was less deep but they still needed to cope with an enormous amount of wieght higher up with a huge moment arm from the point of view of stability (armoured decks are very heavy). Malta was never built off course but if you look at the history of the Midways they lost 5" guns at every new radar installation pointing to possible overload . The cost of the full modernization of Midway in the 1960's , which seems to have involved a full structural rebuild of the ship, could have bought the USN a new medium sized carrier (and the sucess was a limited one anyway, she could not operate the new main line fighter of the USN, the F-14).
On the other hand, closed armoured deck designs were very difficult to modernize (Victorious!) and ran into serious problems when trying to fit deck edge lifts to the structure. Looking a the differences between the 15000-20000 ton CVS designs of the 1970's the debate still seems to be going on.

[Werner]

The problem with Midway's design (and the SCB125C Essex for that matter) was the 17 feet 6 inch clear height of the hangar deck. Both types operated the A-3 Whale, which was extremely close to the F-14 in terms of weight and landing performance. I am sure it would not have been difficult to make a modified F-14 folding tail for CV41, but the Navy was pressing for new carriers during the development of the F-14 and the inability to handle the F-14 and E-2 Hawkeye were good excuses to ask for new carriers.

[Pieter]

The hanger height problem was related to what I wrote earlier as hanger deck is also expensive in terms of weight (rasing that whole armoured deck again) and would have causes another expensive redesign/rebuild. I've just realised that the F-111B which was supposed to become the new mainline fighter did have a folding tail so the designers of the Midway conversion (which was designed around 1964/65) must have thought the hangar height problem was not serious enough to warrant yet another expensive change in a very difficult rebuild. As it was the USN acquired a second best carrier for almost the cost of new one. So the lobby for new carriers was probably right, and this meant any new Essex conversions (there were some serious proposals in the late 1970's) did not happen either.

[Gordon Bjorklund]

Here"s a couple of pics of "The Blue Ghost"









I want to thank all of you who have posted pictures , questions, answers and information on this site. They have been a great help in building my Lexington.

Gordon

[Tracy White]

I've seen Gordon's build in-person and the photos don't do her justice.
I'm hoping to see soe of your ships at our show next year Gordon; you're going to give everyone a run for their money!

[Devin]

Looks awesome! That first picture, though, with CV-2 in the background had me thinking for a second you'd built some sort of Essex hybrid!

-Devin

[abramsteve]

Awesome job Gordon! Youve inspired me to get back into my Lady Lex!

Just a question though it may have been discussed/asked before, what colour are her decks? I think they look great, and would be interested to make mine the same...

Cheers!

[Gordon Bjorklund]

Devin, Thanks for your kind comments on my Lexington. This build was fun, informative and frustrating over the nine months I worked on her.

Devin wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

! That first picture, though, with CV-2 in the background had me thinking for a second you'd built some sort of Essex hybrid!



I put the CV-2 Lexington in the back ground because she will never see the light of day on her own. I bought it to use the a/c and a/c decals for my "Tokyo Raid" Enterprise. I work on her every now and then as a filler when I don't feel like working my other projects.

Gordon

[Gordon Bjorklund]

abramsteve wrote:
.........................................................................................................
Just a question though it may have been discussed/asked before, what colour are her decks? I think they look great, and would be interested to make mine the same...
........................................................................................................

First off I want to thank you for your kind comments and interest in my build. Here is another picture of the flight deck while under construction.



This picture shows more of the blue around the edges of the deck than the above pictures do.

I mist coated the blue on the deck until I was happy with the way it looked.

The above results were achieved by the following steps.

Products used. Tamiya primer, Testors Acryl MM Dark Tan (4709) (FS30219), Testors Acryl MM (Marine) Flt. Deck Gray (Blue) (4234) #20/250N, fine (well used) sandpaper, sanding pads, used scrubbing pad and a paper towel.

When you are satisfied with the results of each step move on to the next.

1. I primed the deck with Tamiya's Gray Surface Primer. ( I only use
primer when I'm going to put another color of paint on top of another,
in this case brown/blue/black)

2. Lightly sand primer. ( I wet sand all steps with a soap and water mix0

wash and dry

3. Paint deck tan. (The next time I paint a deck tan (Korean War Essex) I
will add a drop or two of black paint to the tan paint to darken it up.)

wash and dry

4. Lightly sand Tan with sand paper or scrub the deck with the paper
towel.

wash and dry

5. Paint deck blue. ( Apply as much or as little as you want for the way
you want your deck to look. ( I mist coated this deck)

wash and dry

6. Lightly sand blue paint.

wash and dry.

When you are happy with the way your deck looks, paint on your stripes or gloss coat for application of decals.

Take your time and have fun.

HTH

Gordon

[Tracy White]

Since the question came up in another thread I thought I'd post this here as well; this is a shot of tugs commonly found on the Essex class later in the war. No firm time periods for any ship, I'm afraid.

[Jim Russell]

Tracy

Re 2 tractor photos, the bottom picture is Hornet 1944 based on tail markings (Arnold - Essex class WWII).

Jim

[Tracy White]

Oops... yes I knew that... what I meant is that I don't have any firm time period for when specific ships started using the tugs.

[ModelMonkey]

Beautiful build, Gordon!

Just started building Trumpy's 1/350 Yorktown.

Thanks for all the advice on this thread! Very helpful indeed.

This is my first Trumpy kit. Did any of you have trouble with parts fit? I am finding that I have to do a LOT of puttying and sanding, much more than normally needed on say a good Tamiya kit.

[Gordon Bjorklund]

Steve, thank you for you kind comment on my Lexington.

Now to answer your question on Trumpeter fit problems.

Yes!! I have had a few fit problems with both the Essex (Intrepid) and Yorktown kits.

Dorie "Little Blue" from the movie "Finding Nemo" had a line that went like this."just keep swimming, just keep swimming". I think that if she was talking to us the Trumpeter ship model builders, she would be saying "just keep sanding, just keep sanding".

My Yorktown has been on hold since July 18th. After filling and sanding and filling and sanding, I put a coat of primer on her. Oh my! I needed to do more filling and sanding. With that done I put another coat of primer on her. It still needs more putty. I have also used some .010" plastic strips as fillers for the gaps in the side pieces and the 20mm galleries and catwalks.

Even with all the fit problems a beautful model can be completed. There are some stunning models posted on this site.

Just keep sanding, just keep sanding.

HTH

Gordon

[Devin]

Steve,

You've already seen the worst part of the kit: putty and sand. Repeat. Repeat again. The fit isn't atrocious, but there are enough tiny gaps and seams from mis-aligned molds that you have to sand virtually every piece in the kit.

The big thing I found out was in the area of attaching the hangar walls to the hangar deck. Do NOT rely on the molded in positioning lines. If you do then the walls will not transition to the hull smoothly. I cut and sanded those locator lines off of the deck and then lined it all up by eye and using square edges.

-Devin

[ArizonaBB39]

Steve,

You've already seen the worst part of the kit: putty and sand. Repeat. Repeat again. The fit isn't atrocious, but there are enough tiny gaps and seams from mis-aligned molds that you have to sand virtually every piece in the kit.

The big thing I found out was in the area of attaching the hangar walls to the hangar deck. Do NOT rely on the molded in positioning lines. If you do then the walls will not transition to the hull smoothly. I cut and sanded those locator lines off of the deck and then lined it all up by eye and using square edges.

-Devin

Definently take Devin's advice, I didn't realize this until it was too late, and now on the starboard side of my ship I have one piece that sits out farther than another, which creates a horrible mess trying to get the flightdeck to sit properly

oh the headache

Trumpy is giving us wonderful subjects, I just feel they're trying to get them out so fast they dont let the quality be as well as it can. Although, if they were perfect, what would we have to do besides just slap 'em together?

Good luck with the build Steve, make sure to post pics!!

[ModelMonkey]

Gents,

I remain indebted to you all!

Glad to hear that I am not alone in dealing with the Trumpy's fit issues. We'll be putting the kids at Squadron through college with what we will have to spend on Green putty to fix our models.

I'll be sure and watch those hanger deck bulkheads. Glad you said something about it as I was just about to start mounting them. I would certainly have mounted them according to the molded on positioning lines and dorked up a very expensive model. Abe, hope you can fix yours without too much trouble.

A few detail questions for all you Essex class experts. I intend to build Yorktown either as she appeared in late 1944 or early 1945. I was able to find two very good close-up photos of her radar fit during both those periods, and they are a bit different, but need your help in deciding just which to choose.

1) For 1945, "R@L Tracy" clued me in to the need to lower two quad 40mm mounts on the port side level with the 5-inch singles and fill in the corresponding flight deck cutouts for those mounts. Thanks Tracy! Before I start cutting, please confirm or deny I am about to lower the correct mounts.

2) Any thoughts on how the aircraft were painted in late 1944 vice early 1945 and how the air group was organized? I suspect by early 1945 the air group might have been generally glossy sea blue with the white diagonal on the tail and triangle on the upper right wing. I like the look of the three-tone blue scheme on Navy aircraft better so am hoping there might be a time period when the airgroup was three-tone yet the ship had tha late radar fit.

3) Did Yorktown have any radar-equipped Hellcats or Corsairs at any time she was still in camouflage?

4) There was some discussion in an earlier post about where Keith Hufnagel positioned the three starboard side Quad 40mm Bofors tubs (the ones under the island) on his magnificent build. He placed them a little bit lower on the hull than where Trumpy would have the builder put them. Can anyone further explain just how low these mounts and their tubs need to go? Sounds like "Bofors tub Limbo".

5) Tracy reported that some of the Mk-51 Directors need to be moved from the hangar deck level higher to the catwalks. Any specifics?

6) Any comments on chock placement? Thanks to Loren Perry who reports they are too high and should be trimmed down (rather trimmed up - it's the bottoms that are too tall). The kit's positioning of some don't look right either.

7) Tracy reports that the hangar deck is to be painted deck gray. Is the deck of the forward port-side hangar deck catapult sponson (two Quad Bofors are positioned there) also gray or deck blue 20-B? The sponson's deck extends outward directly from the hangar deck and I wonder if the crew painted that deck differently than the hangar deck or just continued the deck gray onto the sponson deck.

Last question - color of splinter shield interior. Can anyone confirm the color? Pics of some ships such as USS Missouri show that the deck blue 20-B was carried up onto the splinter shield interior. True for Yorktown?

Please keep posting pics of your builds!

[Devin]

I'll take a stab at a few of the questions:

2. by early 1945 you're going into overall glossy sea blue for almost all aircraft except for some TBM squadrons. In 1944 the unit marking tail and wing insignia geometric symbols were in use, but I'm not sure of exact dates. A good place to ask this question would be http://www.hyperscale.com.

3. I do not believe Yorktown carried any radar-dome equipped aircraft during that time. Hyperscale would also be a good bet for that question.

7. The forecastle deck is an outside/weather deck, so it is 20-B.

Splinter shield interior: it varied depending on the ship. Some used deck blue, some used the camo colors. You have to find a photo to prove it one way or the other. If you can't find a photo, flip a coin!

-Devin