paint question

father&son · Post by **father&son** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:07 pm

Hi all-
I'm new here so I'll give a little background. I, like probably most of you, built a few models when I was a kid. Now that I have kids of my own I would like them to discover what fun it is. A while back, I bought the Revell U.S.S Missouri kit to put together with my oldest boy (8 at the time). It was an enjoyable project and he really seemed to be excited about it. So next I ordered the Revell Battle of Midway Carrier kit. My son was really excited about building an aircraft carrier,but after looking at he instructions, I wasn't. Can someone explain the painting to me? From what I can gather, you are supposed to mix different colors together to make the colors that are used on the model. What brand of paints are they referring to? Is there some way I can just get the colors I need without having to mix them? I would appreciate hearing from somone who has built this model to know what they did. This kit has been sitting around for months and I would really like to get to work on it with my son while it is still Winter here because I think he will be less interested in working on it when it gets nice out.

Sorry this was so long. If you read this far, THANKS!

Gary

PetrOs · Post by **PetrOs** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:51 am

Hello,

Revell's instructions generally call for the revell color numbers. There are many other color brands you can use. You can use different brands in the same project, just dont mix the colors of different makes together. I usually prefer the tamiya and gunze acrylic colors, but its a kind of a personal preference.

Mixing to get a right color - for a beginner/restarter it usually can be a problem. In most cases, you can find a quite right color out-of-the-bottle from another manufacturer, especially as the US ship colors were standardised, and there are properly-mixed ready colors available for any US navy color. For example WEM makes them all, i think modelmaster also had a few.

In your situation, if you want a good looking model but dont care about minimal color discrepancies, you can go on and roughly match the expected color by a ready color from a shop. Especially if the shop features many colors from different manufactuers it would be easy.

Alternatively you can also just go on and use a small bottle/jar (I use 50 ml ones from capers (or whatever its called in english ;o) ) my mom uses for salads ;o) ) for mixing a small amount of color. I use the plastic 5ml pipettes for mixing. So if its called for 70-30 mix rate, you put 7 ml of one color, and 3 ml of other color into the jar, add 1-2 ml of thinner, close the jar, and shake it. I also usually drop some heavy object into the jar, like a small screw or a 2-4 g fishing lead weight, for better mixing.

mike mccabe · Post by **mike mccabe** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:13 pm

Hi Gary,
Nice to see you encouraging the young generation! As Petr says if it is a Revell kit the colours will refer to the Revell line of paints. I assume you are in the USA? I'm not sure of the exact colours you need but I think Testors is the usual brand of enamel paint there? You could also use acrylic which a lot of brands are water based, though I'm not sure again what is available. Perhaps somebody on the other side of the pond could help out?

Can you list what colours it calls for then perhaps we could see what is the best match.

Mike

father&son · Post by **father&son** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:10 pm

Thanks for the replies! Yes, I am in the U.S. and, to show how out of the loop I am, I didn't even know Revell had a line of paint. Testors is a popular brand of enamel paint, in fact that is what we used on the U.S.S. Missouri kit we did previously. With the kit that I have now, colors are indicated in the instructions by a small flag with a letter in it. The letters refer to a chart on the fourth page which tells you the mix percentages of which colors you need to make up the color for each letter. They are as follows:

"A"=25% white matt + 70%greyish blue matt + 5%blue matt
"B"=67%grey matt + 33%greyish blue matt
"C"=grey matt
"D"=90%tank grey matt + 10%blue matt
"E"=75% fiery red, silky-matt + 25% rust matt
"F"=dust grey matt
"G"=80%brass metallic + 20%black matt
"H"=black matt
"I"=silver metallic
"J"=light grey matt
"K"=80%grey matt + 20%greyish blue matt
"L"=black gloss
"M"=gold metallic
"N"=blue matt
"O"=ochre brown matt
Granted, only 6 out of the 15 colors need to be mixed, but I would rather not have to mix any of them. But at least now I know what brand of paint they are referring to!

PetrOs · Post by **PetrOs** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:35 pm

father&son wrote:
"A"=25% white matt + 70%greyish blue matt + 5%blue matt
"B"=67%grey matt + 33%greyish blue matt
"C"=grey matt
"D"=90%tank grey matt + 10%blue matt
"E"=75% fiery red, silky-matt + 25% rust matt
"F"=dust grey matt
"G"=80%brass metallic + 20%black matt
"H"=black matt
"I"=silver metallic
"J"=light grey matt
"K"=80%grey matt + 20%greyish blue matt
"L"=black gloss
"M"=gold metallic
"N"=blue matt
"O"=ochre brown matt
Granted, only 6 out of the 15 colors need to be mixed, but I would rather not have to mix any of them. But at least now I know what brand of paint they are referring to!

Can you also add numbers of the colors, makes it easier a bit ;o)
I mean, in instructions it is usually written like
"H"=black matt, 8
and in all conversion tables noone has color names, but only numbers ;o)

Avery Boyer · Post by **Avery Boyer** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:36 pm

A probably refers to US Navy Seablue 5S. B would be Ocean Grey 5O, C would be Haze Grey 5H, D would be Deck Blue 20B. I am going under the assumption that this would be Yorktown at the battle of Midway, as depicted on the box. If that's what your going for, than these would be the colors to get. Does Testors have a line of marine colors in enamel?? Sorry I can't help there, I only use acrylics. It may not matter much in this case, unless your practicing accuracy as well as skill building

father&son · Post by **father&son** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:47 pm

Sorry! I didn't know the numbers were important. Here is the corrected list:

"A"=25% white matt5 + 70%greyish blue matt79 + 5%blue matt56
"B"=67%grey matt57 + 33%greyish blue matt79
"C"=grey matt57
"D"=90%tank grey matt78 + 10%blue matt56
"E"=75% fiery red, silky-matt330 + 25% rust matt83
"F"=dust grey matt77
"G"=80%brass metallic92 + 20%black matt8
"H"=black matt8
"I"=silver metallic90
"J"=light grey matt76
"K"=80%grey matt57 + 20%greyish blue matt79
"L"=black gloss7
"M"=gold metallic94
"N"=blue matt56
"O"=ochre brown matt88

We are going to be building the Enterprise version. What would be the colors for that? I haven't researched this too much so I will have to see what Testors has. I would be surprised to find that they didn't have marine colors though.

Thanks again for all the responses!

Gary

mike mccabe · Post by **mike mccabe** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:11 pm

Gary
I just had a quick look at http://www.testors.com and they have a long list of paints. Avery is probably right I think in what he says about the colours which are the main ones needed for the camoflage scheme. On the Testors site there is a range of acrylic paints made for naval models, but I haven't looked through them all to see which they have in the enamel range. Best thing is always to try your local model shop if you are lucky enough to have one, otherwise there are plenty of on-line shops you can mail order from if you get stuck.

Mike

largeallan · Post by **largeallan** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:50 pm

I came across this 'mixing' colours on my Revell QM2.....what a load of ole pants IMO......I mixed up their 'suggested' deck colour to their exact recipe, and guess what?.....It doesnt even look remotely correct to my eye.....and in fact, while I'm on a rant......If they cant spend the time making a decent model for the illustrations on their boxes, then whats the chances of them sweating over the right colour of paint mixtures?...not much I'll bet.

do what looks right to your own eye is my opinion on this

RNfanDan · Post by **RNfanDan** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:04 pm

mike mccabe wrote:On the Testors site there is a range of acrylic paints made for naval models, but I haven't looked through them all to see which they have in the enamel range. Best thing is always to try your local model shop if you are lucky enough to have one, otherwise there are plenty of on-line shops you can mail order from if you get stuck.

Mike

Just a word on Testor's Model Master Marine acrylics--these were based on Snyder & Short color references, very accurate and of good quality.

UNFORTUNATELY, Testor's is discontinuing their MMM Line of acrylics. They are still available from remaining stocks however, and I've had good luck acquiring most of their product range, recently.

Another source for USN colors is PollyScale brand paint, which I have obtained from Tower Hobbies, from whom I have always received excellent service. I understand Walthers also carry PollyScale, but I don't know if they have the military colors in stock.

In any case, I have had good results with both MMM and PollyScale, regardless of the vendor. Nice to see that the hobby is being passed along to a younger generation (we need more like them) !

father&son · Post by **father&son** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:44 pm

UNFORTUNATELY, Testor's is discontinuing their MMM Line of acrylics. They are still available from remaining stocks however, and I've had good luck acquiring most of their product range, recently.

That figures! I was looking at the Testors site and was kinda leaning towards using the MM acrylics since they seem to have a pretty good selection of marine colors to choose from. I might just have to make a trip to the nearest hobby shop and see what they have. Anyone have some conversion suggestions from Revell to Model masters? I have suggestions above for the mixed colors A,B,C & D. How about for E,G & K? They don't have to be perfectly accurate, I just want something close. My son will be still be happy.

Avery Boyer · Post by **Avery Boyer** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:47 pm

Enterprise carried MS-21 overall US Navy blue. 5N overall, with deck blue 20B decks at the time of the battle of Midway.

So anything that goes on the hull=5N. Decks=20B.

E would be Hull red, G would be gun metal, don't know about the others.

father&son · Post by **father&son** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:55 pm

Okay, this is the list of colors I am looking at:

http://www.testors.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=45

I found 5-N navy blue (item #4241) and Deck blue 20B (item#4243). Not sure about the rest. I looked through the instructions to see where K was used and found out that it is the color of the top of the planes, so I'm guessing that would be an aircraft color? I really appreciate everyones help! As you can tell, I'm pretty much clueless on the colors. I'm just trying to compile a shopping list for this weekend!

Bill Waldorf · Post by **Bill Waldorf** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:02 am

father&son wrote:Okay, this is the list of colors I am looking at:

http://www.testors.com/catalog_browse.asp?ictNbr=45

I found 5-N navy blue (item #4241) and Deck blue 20B (item#4243). Not sure about the rest. I looked through the instructions to see where K was used and found out that it is the color of the top of the planes, so I'm guessing that would be an aircraft color? I really appreciate everyones help! As you can tell, I'm pretty much clueless on the colors. I'm just trying to compile a shopping list for this weekend!

Top of the aircraft is dark blue. I use Floquil model RR paint for this. Enamel based. Color is Dark Blue-F 110050. You can add a little black to it, not much, a few drops.

PetrOs · Post by **PetrOs** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:05 am

I think G is for the ships screws, a darker kind of bronze. Any bronze color would do the job i think. I use tamiya acrylics for that, but testors, floqul, and i think every company would have it in range.

E - Hull red can be for example Testors 4228 Anti-Fouling red

K is the grey-blue for the aircraft. I think wildcats were painted dark blue, but dauntlesses and devastators carried the light blue grey coating

father&son · Post by **father&son** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:18 pm

I realized that it would help if you knew what the colors are for. I also located a color chart for the MM marine acrylics:

http://www.testors.com/tes_cds/color_ch ... rylic).pdf

"A" is the main color, covers most of the hull and superstructure. From what I have learned so far, 5N Navy Blue (#4241) should cover that.

"B" & "C" are apparently not used if you are building the Enterprise version.

"D" is the deck color. Deck Blue 20B (#4243) should cover that.

"E" is the hull bottom. Anti-Fouling Red seems more brownish to me on the chart, would that be correct or should I use one of the other reds like maybe Navy Red (#4222) ?

"F" appears to be an interior wall and floor color. It is also an option for the interior of the launches. The Revell color chart show it as a dark gray color. Would Navy Dark Gray (#4220) work or would you reccomend another color?

"G" is the screw color. Since I plan on using acrylic on the ship, and can't seem to find anything in the MM arylics to match, would it be o.k. to paint them with an enamel bronze metallic?

"H" seems to only be used on the airplane propellers, a matt black. Would Tar (#4212) work for that?

"I" is a silver mettalic used for the searchlight lenses and airplane canopies. Could I just use an enamel silver metallic or do you have a better suggestion?

"J" is a light gray used on the underside of the planes (Dauntless). Would #5 Light Gray (#4236) be a good color for that?

"K" is the top color for the planes. Would Maritime Blue (#4219) be a good match for that?

"L" is just gloss black and is only used on the name plaque.

"M" is a gold metallic and is also only used on the plaque

"N" is an optional darker blue for the top of the planes

"O" is an optional color for the inside of the launches

Hopefully I will get this figured out soon and I won't have to bother you nice folks with it anymore.

father&son · Post by **father&son** » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:42 pm

O.K. the link to the color chart didn't work. If you go here:

http://www.testors.com/brand_category.asp?brandNbr=4

And then click on the link at the top for MM marine acrylics it should bring up a pdf file of the color chart.

Jason M. · Post by **Jason M.** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:50 am

RNfanDan wrote:
[/quJust a word on Testor's Model Master Marine acrylics--these were based on Snyder & Short color references, very accurate and of good quality.

UNFORTUNATELY, Testor's is discontinuing their MMM Line of acrylics. They are still available from remaining stocks however, and I've had good luck acquiring most of their product range, recently.

ote]

WHAT!!!???? NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! I love these paints, and its the only ones I use!!

WHY DO THE SHIP GUYS GET SCREWED ALL THE TIME!!? I guarantee they aren't discontinuing any AIRCRAFT colors!

Post by **Timmy C** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:52 am

Probably because there aren't enough of us ship guys buying them, so why produce something that don't generate income? It sucks, but crap happens =(

PetrOs · Post by **PetrOs** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:21 am

father&son wrote:I realized that it would help if you knew what the colors are for. I also located a color chart for the MM marine acrylics:

http://www.testors.com/tes_cds/color_ch ... rylic).pdf

"A" is the main color, covers most of the hull and superstructure. From what I have learned so far, 5N Navy Blue (#4241) should cover that.

"B" & "C" are apparently not used if you are building the Enterprise version.

"D" is the deck color. Deck Blue 20B (#4243) should cover that.

"E" is the hull bottom. Anti-Fouling Red seems more brownish to me on the chart, would that be correct or should I use one of the other reds like maybe Navy Red (#4222) ?

"F" appears to be an interior wall and floor color. It is also an option for the interior of the launches. The Revell color chart show it as a dark gray color. Would Navy Dark Gray (#4220) work or would you reccomend another color?

"G" is the screw color. Since I plan on using acrylic on the ship, and can't seem to find anything in the MM arylics to match, would it be o.k. to paint them with an enamel bronze metallic?

"H" seems to only be used on the airplane propellers, a matt black. Would Tar (#4212) work for that?

"I" is a silver mettalic used for the searchlight lenses and airplane canopies. Could I just use an enamel silver metallic or do you have a better suggestion?

"J" is a light gray used on the underside of the planes (Dauntless). Would #5 Light Gray (#4236) be a good color for that?

"K" is the top color for the planes. Would Maritime Blue (#4219) be a good match for that?

"L" is just gloss black and is only used on the name plaque.

"M" is a gold metallic and is also only used on the plaque

"N" is an optional darker blue for the top of the planes

"O" is an optional color for the inside of the launches

Hopefully I will get this figured out soon and I won't have to bother you nice folks with it anymore.

G/I - yeah, its fine to use enamels for some parts, and acrylics for others
Just let the colors dry well, before using other one.

E- I would still think Anti-fouling red would be the more "right" color, but navy red also looks fine.

F- yeah, i think it'll do the job

H- yeah

J/K - according to http://aerofiles.com/USNcolors.html all USN aircraft were painted light gray overall until 43. So blue upper sides would be wrong.. #5 Light gray would be a kind of a good approximation for that as it seems to me.