1/144 Kiev by Dave Wooley

[Dave Wooley]

Roel that's one huge towed array. I've seen some large towed arrays on my travels but that�s the big one. In fact as guest has said that would have some unwelcome side effects when trying to alter course . Those tubes are very much the same as those I saw on the Sovremennyy and Udaloy�s 1s & 2. Given their length the space they are housed in must be substantial. I recall TT being located amidships in the hull on Moskva.
Thanks for posting
Dave Wooley

[Neptune]

Yeah, the towed array is upside down here. It's big indeed, that's also why their ships have such a huge hatch instead of the Western small ports.
The TT's on Moskva were indeed on deck. Their lower freeboard allowed that. Kiev has a much higher freeboard so they had to house the TT's below deck in the lower side of the extensions for the weapons aft. The pictures seem to be taken from the side towards the centreline, with the large hole behind the camera.

Here is a better shot of the flight deck structure:
http://hp3000.empireclassic.com/minsk/F ... ck_BFP.JPG

And here is the site where the pictures come from. They are taken on Minsk in China.
Kiev herself is also in China somewhere.

http://hp3000.empireclassic.com/minsk/

[Dave Wooley]

Hi Roel great Picture. Running down the centre of the parallel white lines there are small raised noduels . I take it these are deck landing lights? . The mass of markings on the deck are these for holding down the tiles?
Thanks once again for this superb picture
Dave Wooley

[Dave Wooley]

Today�s up date remains with the internal installation. The idea is to get all the electrics into place, and in some tidy order .
This picture shows the motors in place along with a removable servo tray
This is also large enough to accommodate relays or servos for the operation of pumps should the need arise to fit trim tanks fore and aft. The two square plastic tubes are for tracking cable through.

Here the cable from the motors to the ESCs is being fed through each tube which is tucked away and secured beneath the flight deck beams.

There are two separate trays one aft for the rudder servo and one well forward supporting the ESC {electronic speed controllers] and very importantly the RX.[ radio receiver } . It does well to keep the RX and the ESC well away from any potential interference, particularly from the motors.

The deck is temporally put into place to give some idea of the good access provided. The Rudder servo tray is easily removable to give access to the motors and the Rx, ESCs are easily accessible.

These last two pictures show the ESCs with the RX to one side. This radio is slightly different is so much as its uses a synthesizer for frequency selection, in a nut shell there is no need for crystals and less chance of interference from other uses.

The next step is to connect up and hope the set up works. Following this a general tidy up of the interior and some thoughts can be given to ballasting trials. Once they are completed successfully and only then will the deck be fitted and the real work on the model can begin. Careful consideration at this very early stage of how the internal installation is to function can save on potential problems later.

Dave Wooley

[ARH]

Hi DAVE, Will I be escorting a flat top out of the area on the 15th, looks a though she could be sailing by then, neat bit of work.

[H.A. Baker]

This is definately a brick job I see here!
HAB

[Torpedo]

Excellent! I will try to do so cleaned up with my Derfflinger, but this is definetely a paragon!
Good Work Dave!

[Dave Wooley]

Hi DAVE, Will I be escorting a flat top out of the area on the 15th, looks a though she could be sailing by then, neat bit of work.

Hi Ron Yes I'll be needing an escort on the 15th but I think tugs would be the order of the day . I just don't know how Kiev will respond if there is any wind . But for me it's Launch/ballasting day .
Dave Wooley

[Kiwimedic]

Hi Dave,
Is that big space for the battery?
Nice to see forethought to below decks.
I think we tend to forget about that at times.
A trip down to see Kiev going into the fitting out dock after launch might be on the cards.

Regards
Phil

[ozpirate]

Hiya all just had a look though your forum about your Kiev. I built my model in the mid 1980s with very little info. All we had was a line drawing an a russian warship book which was enough to get me and my dad interested in a model of the ship. In the years following we managed to get some good images of the Minck. (Second ship in the class) We had an excelent shot of the bow carving throught the water. When we got our model into the water the image I took of my model was the same and the one in the book.
Go check out the web site at : http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
We eventually redesigned the deck due to incorrect angle and while we opened the ship we also put on a fiberglass deck. This was good since we had a fiberglass hull also. This also turned out to be a downfall with the deck eventually warping due to incorrect strenght in the deck. The ship was eventually scraped in the late 1980s.
I'm currently working on my next big project... Admiral Kuznetsov but still working on the plans. Might build at scale 1/72 since I have been able to get plastic kits of most of the aircraft so far.

Mick
Sydney Australia

[Andy G]

The electrical layout is very crisp. Lovely work, Dave.

Andy

[Dave Wooley]

Hiya all just had a look though your forum about your Kiev. I built my model in the mid 1980s with very little info. All we had was a line drawing an a russian warship book which was enough to get me and my dad interested in a model of the ship. In the years following we managed to get some good images of the Minck. (Second ship in the class) We had an excelent shot of the bow carving throught the water. When we got our model into the water the image I took of my model was the same and the one in the book.
Go check out the web site at : http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
We eventually redesigned the deck due to incorrect angle and while we opened the ship we also put on a fiberglass deck. This was good since we had a fiberglass hull also. This also turned out to be a downfall with the deck eventually warping due to incorrect strenght in the deck. The ship
was eventually scraped in the late 1980s.
I'm currently working on my next big project... Admiral Kuznetsov but still working on the plans. Might build at scale 1/72 since I have been able to get plastic kits of most of the aircraft so far.

Mick
Sydney Australia

Hi Mike Yes I remember these pictures. Your Minsk certainly looked good to me even though you were hampered by limited build information. Talking of the deck I experienced the same problem on the Moskva but used styrene, not a good idea. The one material that offers some stability in large areas is timber but even this can go wrong hence the extensive bracing beneath the deck on Kiev. As a matter of interest how did you ballast Minsk? Also did you have any windage problems as most carriers, I've seen do suffer in this way. Building Kuznetzov at 1:72 would be quite a challenge but would look quite striking out on the water. Just working on the main island at the present time which as you know is full of interesting but taxing shapes to work on.. I look forward to seeing more of your Kuznetsov , surprisingly I�ve not seen any large scale model of the Gorshkov , now that could be quite different?
Dave Wooley

[ozpirate]

The Minck originally had a plywood deck and although it didn't warp there where other problems also. I guess if we build the models large we have to expect large problems.
Minck was scale 1/100 and had a draft of 10cm not including the bulb. As for balast I don't know how I did it but when the model was in the water all I needed was one car battery and she sat correctly in the water. I did remember when I was making the fiberglass hull all spare resin was poured into the hull for strength (Later I found out all it did was add to the weight not strength but it worked out anyway) I could manage the model on my own after the car battery was pulled out of the model. Also the superstructure was removable. One battery - one motor - friction drive onto 4 shaft - 4 channel RC using 3 servoes.
Windage problems are always there with large models. When we were making this model the first time we had it on the water it was uncontrolable due to wind. We redisgned the rudders making ballance rudders, this helped sterring. First time in the water it only had rudders and power (FULL POWER - on/off switch) This model when at full speed would pull up in 1.5 lengths of the ship which for its lenght I found acceptible.
A few months later we added a keel under the hull 2/3rds the way from the bow to the bridge. The keel was aproxamately 25cm long and 7cm deep. This was a real change making the model very easy to steer in all conditions even to the extreme of ocean waves over the bow and turning unside the waves. I have yet to see any model on the water that could turn as tight as she did for her length.
I will be using many tricks when I eventually build the Admiral Kuznetsov including making a fiberglass mould. So who knows once one is started maybe someone might try building the second in the class. There are some guys in Wagga Wagga building the Novorossiysk Scale 1/72 (I aways had a problem saying this name thats also why I build the Minck) He has only made the wooden hull so far but when I told him about my project he was very interested in having a hull of this ship also, so again you never know whats in the wind. One lesson I plan to change is the friction drive, this was good but this time I plan 4 separate motors. This also may help the model to turn when the need is there. As for the deck I may try a 4 Styrene sheet deck. Yes this will show cracks in the deck but also helps access to the interior hull. I can live with then cracks in the deck if this helps. In the minck I only had 3 small openings. One near the bridge for the battery, one above the motors and the large opening above the rudders and RC.

Mick

[Dave Wooley]

The Minck originally had a plywood deck and although it didn't warp there where other problems also. I guess if we build the models large we have to expect large problems.
Minck was scale 1/100 and had a draft of 10cm not including the bulb. As for balast I don't know how I did it but when the model was in the water all I needed was one car battery and she sat correctly in the water. I did remember when I was making the fiberglass hull all spare resin was poured into the hull for strength (Later I found out all it did was add to the weight not strength but it worked out anyway) I could manage the model on my own after the car battery was pulled out of the model. Also the superstructure was removable. One battery - one motor - friction drive onto 4 shaft - 4 channel RC using 3 servoes.
Windage problems are always there with large models. When we were making this model the first time we had it on the water it was uncontrolable due to wind. We redisgned the rudders making ballance rudders, this helped sterring. First time in the water it only had rudders and power (FULL POWER - on/off switch) This model when at full speed would pull up in 1.5 lengths of the ship which for its lenght I found acceptible.
A few months later we added a keel under the hull 2/3rds the way from the bow to the bridge. The keel was aproxamately 25cm long and 7cm deep. This was a real change making the model very easy to steer in all conditions even to the extreme of ocean waves over the bow and turning unside the waves. I have yet to see any model on the water that could turn as tight as she did for her length.
I will be using many tricks when I eventually build the Admiral Kuznetsov including making a fiberglass mould. So who knows once one is started maybe someone might try building the second in the class. There are some guys in Wagga Wagga building the Novorossiysk Scale 1/72 (I aways had a problem saying this name thats also why I build the Minck) He has only made the wooden hull so far but when I told him about my project he was very interested in having a hull of this ship also, so again you never know whats in the wind. One lesson I plan to change is the friction drive, this was good but this time I plan 4 separate motors. This also may help the model to turn when the need is there. As for the deck I may try a 4 Styrene sheet deck. Yes this will show cracks in the deck but also helps access to the interior hull. I can live with then cracks in the deck if this helps. In the minck I only had 3 small openings. One near the bridge for the battery, one above the motors and the large opening above the rudders and RC.

Mick

Thanks Mike for answering all my questions. It's always good to talk to some one that has had experience with this type of hull . I've spoken with a couple of the guys from Wagga and I believe the 1:72 Novorossiysk is laid up pending more contruction work . They are certainly keen carrier builders. I've been toying with the idea of trim tanks and have discused this at length with Kiwi medic . Although compared to 1:72 or even 1:100 the 1:144 kiev comes out at a very modest 73inches in length but big enough to fit in the car , just .
Dave Wooley

[Neptune]

Hi Dave,
sorry for not checking in lately. My connection got screwed up again (happens once in a while). Did you notice the fuel hoses coming through special hatches on the deck in the picture I sent you? I just noticed them while I was examining the picture again.

Thanks for the update, I guess that's one of your benchmarks, a perfect, smooth and professional looking electronic installation! Nice to see it all fit in!

[Dave Wooley]

Hi Dave,
sorry for not checking in lately. My connection got screwed up again (happens once in a while). Did you notice the fuel hoses coming through special hatches on the deck in the picture I sent you? I just noticed them while I was examining the picture again.

Thanks for the update, I guess that's one of your benchmarks, a perfect, smooth and professional looking electronic installation! Nice to see it all fit in!

Hi Roel Are these the Refueling at sea hoists I noticed , at either end of the supertructure "outboard"?
Dave Wooley

[Neptune]

I meant this one:


Below the helicopter, next to the No 5 on deck you have one of these hatches. There is another one, with a man crawling out, just below the 6 next to the Yak-38 (notice the rocket pods and empty hardpoint under its wing) and one hatch near the parked Yak's a little more to the stern. On the big version of this picture, which you have, you can see these things better. There's lots of interesting stuff in this picture!

[Dave Wooley]

Hi Neptune Yes I see what you mean .I misunderstood which picture and type of fuel line. The one shown would be an interesting touch on the model. Presently I�m half way through building the island superstructure with plenty of cutting out being done. I�ll be able to post some progress pictures up in the next few days but there�s more to this superstructure than meets the eye. Some interesting shapes?
Dave Wooley

[Dave Wooley]

The island superstructure on the Kiev�s is complex
And has many angles. But before commencing with
The build a number of basic problems needed to be
Given some thought.
1 Type of material that would give a strong and light
assembly but could be easily worked as there are
many opening to be cut. For this styrene was the material
Of choice. As a ridged framework was being used styrene
Of 1mm thickness could be used.
2 Also a method had to be thought through as to how
Glazing would be carried out once the structure is assembled.
Sides and each bridge for and aft
The base and internal supports were cut to shape.
On the full size ship the lower part of the superstructure
From the deck up to a height of about 5m is at 90degrees
Then the sides slop in at about 5 degrees

The basic framework is assembled taking into account the various thicknesses of the sides and that two removable bridge
works need to be accommodated.

This basic frame work doesn't look much but it's critical
that it's right or all the rest will fail to fit.

The Completed frame work offered up to the drawing

Each of the sides are traced from the drawing and the
various opening marked in

Opening such as vents and widows are marked and cut out

The back side of the vent openings are covered with 10thou .
This will allow the painted vents grills to be fitted once the superstructures is completed

The sides and the frame work are ready to be married together .
If all�s well they should fit accurately .See how it worked out next time and how the stack was fitted.

Dave Wooley

[Neptune]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH,
that's what they normally call SADISTIC and IMMORAL

It's looking great and I'm sure you already have dry fitted them to see whether it was ok!!!!!
It's terrific, I still don't know how you come to these extremely crisp edges! Right on! keep it coming.

What is "glazing" of the superstructure?

Regards
Roel