Calling all Essex-class (WWII configuration) fans

[Tracy White]

US policy was to have all airgroup placed in the flightdeck, not the hangar deck, like the IJN did.
Hangar was only used for maintenance and accomodation in rough weather.

Pretty much spot on. It was also used to store spare aircraft in in some ships with very large air groups they would split the group into two... spot the first wave on deck for launchhing and then move the second on deck after the first had gone or was almost gone. One thing though, the engine and propellor shops were at the rear of the hangar bay, so if you want to have one with the prop off or angine off I'd say it was more likely to be in the immediate rear of the hangar bay.

Does anybody knows which hull line corresponds to which hull station, in A. Raven�s book "Essex Carriers" (or even the WP book, which seems to share the same info), as they have no placement information ???

Here's what I measured out from my Floating Drydock plans for CV-13 1945. These are rough locations for the purpose of figuring out where stuff is located.

Front of hull at waterline (aka forward point) is essentially frame 0

FR15 Begining of enclosed structure on the forecastle deck under the flight deck
FR25 forward point of #1 elevator
FR39 Rear point of #1 elevator
FR50 Approximate location of hangar deck cat
FR65 Approximate mount point of the forward twin 5" turret
FR79 Approximate forward point of the island
FR83 Approximate forward point of the #2 (Deck Edge) elevator
FR95 Approximate start of the stack
FR95 Approximate rear point of the #2 (Deck Edge) elevator
FR112 Rear point of island proper
FR123 Mount point of the third twin 5" turret
FR132 Approximate forward point of #3 elevator
FR145 Rear point of #3 elevator
FR150 Approimate start of starboard aft "covered area" where bulkheads moved in and provided a weather deck.
FR176 Approximate location of aft starboard crane.
FR187 Approximate location of rear propellers ad 3rd port side open 5" mount
FR205 Aft end up structure under the flight deck (not including quad 40mm sponsons)
FR210 Aft end of flight deck.

[david sewell]

I am wanting to model Wasp after her June '45 refit using the 1/350 Trumpy Yorktown. From what I can tell she is in MS21 (1945 revision). I know the colors are #7 Navy Gray and #20 Deck Gray. Is the flight deck stain still dark blue or was it revised to a gray stain to match #20 Deck Gray.

Also, are there any pictures available of Wasp showing the starboard side? I looked at Navsource, Nav Historic Site and Wasp sites, I also have Warship Perspectives Essex Class book. The few pictures of her starboard side I found are after she was part of Operation Magic Carpet and most of her guns were removed.

I have read every post regarding all the changes that I will need to make, lowering the 40mm gun platforms, filling in the flight deck notches, reworking the bridge, raising the gun directors to the catwalks. From the pictures I have, it looks like she was fitted out almost identical to Franklin and Lexington after their refits.

Any help is appreciated.

[Tracy White]

Is the flight deck stain still dark blue or was it revised to a gray stain to match #20 Deck Gray.

Blue

Also, are there any pictures available of Wasp showing the starboard side?

None from the Puget Sound files that I've been able to find yet. I may have her departure report but I don't think so... I'll look later tonight when I get a chance though.

[Tracy White]

It should be pointed out that the forward flight deck on the post-war ships* had extra reinforcements you can see just aft of the bow gun tubs in NH 97408 that Steve just posted.


* I haven't studied the post-war ships nearly as much as the WWII histories so I can't tell you which ships, and if it ever happened to the short hulls that may have remained active. I started seeing it around 1947-dated photos and it probably has something to do with the 3-4 ships that had collapsed flight decks during and after the war.

[Frank O'Neill 2025]

Steve:
You're a better man than I am as far as your representation of the hull plating goes. I hadn't thought of that. I guess I'm about 2 weeks into the build and I can sum it all up so far in one word---SEAMS!!!!!
Huge, great-big, Grand-Canyon like seams.
So far I've got all the hangar deck walls attached to the hull and am working to fill in the gaps and prepare for painting of the hull. I'll probably attach all of the hull sponsons first for ease of seam-filling and then begin taping off the camo. After that the real fun begins. The seams appear to be the worst of it so far. I did get the wood deck from Nautilus and it looks REALLY cool (except for the cavernous gaps between it and the hangar deck walls in some spots-but that's Trumpeter's fault-not James Corley's).
I hope to have all the seamwork done this weekend so I can begin painting next week.

[Tracy White]

Here's Shangri-La's bow in March, 1947:

[Hanchang Kuo]

I am using Tom's new 1/700 Essex set to dress up my Franklin now. I remember reading somebody's message somewhere that shields for 40mm quad Bofors don't fit Trumpeter's parts. Wasn't paying too much attention to that message until now.... IT DOESN'T FIT. The shield interferes with gun tubes and it's impossible to fit in.

Also tried WEM's PE quad set. Looks very nice once assembled but unfortunately it's a little bit overscale and could not squeeze into the tub.

I am looking for other 40mm options now. Saw the review on Loose Cannon's set but there's no matching PE shield comes with it. Does anybody know that whether Tom's or WEM's shield can be use on Loose Cannon's parts?

Thanks in advance,

[MartinJQuinn]

Found this nice 1/350 Tico posted over on the German modeling site Modelversium.de.

[Tracy White]

So with the ship details largely done, or at least done enough to be at a standstill until I can get some more research done, I've been working on AIR GROUPS.

Oh wow, what a project! The Navy has histories for the VBs and VTs online, but nothing for VFs (although there are VFAs). So, squadrons usually have a number, but I have come across a couple entries that VF-4 was renamed "VF-A" at one point.
Sometimes you see a squadron add an A after the number, but I've never seen one without the number. So did someone typo VF-4A years ago that everyone else has been spreading or was there a legitimage reason VF-4 went to VF-A? These are the types of questions that slow research down.

Additionally, Parts of Air Group 4 are reputed to have flown missions from Bunker Hill in November of 1944... even though the ship left for overhaul on November 6th. Very short window for missions.

Ah well, I'm starting to form a somewhat complete matrices at least

[Tracy White]

Hey Steve, I'm not sure if you saw This post I did but there's some interior shots of Yorktown's hangar bay.

There's also this shot, taken from the forward end of the hangar looking aft. This photo's got to be in mid to late 1943 as thereis a dauntless in the background... no SB2Cs. I think that's CAG Flatley's F6F on the left side of the picture with "00" on the folded wing.

[Avery Boyer]

OK, so I just bought two Hasegawa Essex CVs. I know they are not the greatest kits out there, but these were alot cheaper then any Dragon kit, so......

The question know is, how much am I going to have to scratch build? Just details or am I looking at a whole new Island and platforms....also, would a Dragon Island be so out of place that it would look really bad? I know the Dragon Premium edition San Diego comes with a couple, so maybe I could use those. And finally, what's the best PE set for the kit? TIA

[PeteM]

I apologize if this question sounds simplistic, but what is the best 1/700 long-hull Essex kit available? By best I mean best engineered and most accurate out of the box. And which additional ships in the class, if any, would be able to be modelled from this kit without any real effort?

[Tracy White]

Believe it or not Pete I've paired this thread down a couple of times too!

"Best" is highly debatable. Do you want easist to fix or easiest to assemble?

[PeteM]

"Best" is highly debatable. Do you want easist to fix or easiest to assemble?

I know. I cringe when I see others use the word 'best' but couldn't think of a better way to put it. I guess I'm looking for the eastiest to fix. Not that I'm constantly looking over my shoulder for the accuracy police or anything, but I try to do my best to get my models as close to the original as I can - within reason.

[Tracy White]

Here's the deal...
All of the long hulls have the flight deck wrong for ANY time period. I've actually determined that a lot of the "common knowledge" for the wartime Essexes is incorrect and the three that saw service had uniquely different flight deck configurations.

Short length is correct for Hancock only the entire war. Large cut-out for the extra Mk 37 that was never shipped is correct until her 1945 refit. Short length is correct for Ticonderoga and Randolph for their shake-downs but not after that. Tico had her bow length restored following shakedown but had the short stern until her early 1945 repair and refit... but by that time she had the quad 40s that cut into the deck lowered and the cuts filled in....it goes on and on.

I'm not going to try and make a judgement call regarding "which is best" as it's just too subjective. I can tell you what changes to make, but that's it.

[PeteM]

Thanks Tracy, I appreciate the effort. There is obviously alot more to think about on this subject than I realized. So, would your recommendation still be the Dragon Lexington?

[Tracy White]

For best overall in terms of buildability and lack of fixes yes.
Trumpeter's detail is finer, but needs more fitting and sanding work, so they're not as easy to build as the Dragon kits.

[MartinJQuinn]

Trumpeter's detail is finer, but needs more fitting and sanding work, so they're not as easy to build as the Dragon kits.

Ain't that the truth!! All the hangar walls have to be added and then all those seams filled and sanded several times until it's smooth. However, once it's done (I've got the Trumpy 1/700 Hancock done up to the top of the hangar), she looks sweet!

FWIW, I think the flight deck on the Trumpeter kit has much finer detail than the Dragon kits. I just have to figure out how to cut the notch in Hanna's deck...

[Capt652]

Thanks for the response Mr. White...I also want to say thanks for the great info at Researchers@large. The damage to Tico, with all the clear and detailed pictures make me realize two things, the bravery of the sailors and the strength of the ships!

Anyway, what I am trying to find is details of catwalks, floater net basket placement, gallery deck openings, and the stairways from the catwalk to the flightdeck level. I am using Loren Perry's PE and I want to make sure I don't make any mistakes or waste any parts.

Thanks again to everyone!

[Tracy White]

All of the PE catwalk sets have "problems." They're based on Trumpeter's simplification of the galllery catwalks; none of the openings are present and they shapes are frankly wrong in many different ways. Rather than wade into this swamp the PE manufacturers just did a straight replacement of the catwalk platforms sans the short stairs up and down. To get to the point where you actually have to care about this you have to start thinking about cutting openings into the catwalks... at that point I decided just to stick with plastic myself... I've got the catwalks but can't think of a good way around it.

Drop me an e-mail... I may be able to help further.