Naval Gazing: A Top Gun Fantasy Comes True

Naval History and the Technology associated with it.

Moderators: Timmy C, Gernot, Olaf Held, JWintjes

Post Reply
User avatar
Jack Ray
Posts: 1098
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:23 am
Location: Northern Virginia

Naval Gazing: A Top Gun Fantasy Comes True

Post by Jack Ray »

No doubt the Chinese will one day figure out the mechanics of landing planes at sea -- and of catapulting them off the deck. I wonder if they'll ever get the human element right. The men and women of the Truman are here as a matter of their own free will in order to defend our collective right to live freely. That's more than a matter of mechanics. It's a matter of spirit: the true source of the Truman's awesome power, and of its beauty, too.
De Gustibus
Naval Gazing: A Top Gun Fantasy Comes True

By Bret Stephens
Wall Street Journal
July 13, 2007

Aboard the USS Harry S Truman -- An hour before dusk, the air crew of the USS Truman -- several hundred men and women of every rank and job description -- gathers at the front end of the deck to walk its 1,100 foot length, looking for tiny pieces of debris. A stray piece of metal sucked into the intake of a fighter jet could cause catastrophic damage to the plane and the pilot and terrible damage to the ship. "We don't think of this as a dangerous business," says Rear Adm. Bill Gortney, an F-18 pilot who also commands the Truman's battle group of cruisers, destroyers and submarines. "It's just a terribly unforgiving one."

On this particular evening, however, the rigors of Navy life seem briefly to melt away. From the foredeck I see a school of dolphins leaping from the water; off to starboard, whales are just breaking the surface. The deck is nearly clear except for a detachment of Seahawk helicopters that has returned from an anti-submarine warfare exercise. Activity will resume at a frenetic pace later tonight as the carrier undergoes qualification exercises. But for now the Truman seems remarkably serene and oddly small, a dot in the ocean tracing a southerly course 100 miles off the Virginia shore.

To spend some time on an aircraft carrier is to be disabused of more than a few "Top Gun"-inspired fantasies. The pilots are low-key and self-effacing. The women in their lives, so to speak, are often their fellow pilots or, in the case of F-18 squadron leader Sara Joyner, their commanding officer. The sleek but unwieldy F-14 Tomcat that Tom Cruise pretended to fly (and that was once the subject of my adolescent day-dreaming) has been scrapped, to the immense relief of the entire profession of naval aviators and mechanics.

I arrived here this afternoon from Norfolk Naval Station, courtesy of one of the ship's C-2 Greyhound transport planes. The Greyhound, which looks as if it sprang from the womb of Howard Hughes's Spruce Goose, is 50,000 pounds of flying metal that must set itself down on the pitching deck of a ship at 120 knots and come to a complete stop in two seconds and 200 or so feet. Our pilot made the "trap" on the first try. But tonight Adm. Gortney will watch from his seat on the bridge as freshly minted pilots ("nuggets," in Navy parlance) miss their traps and "bolter" off the deck to try again. As he does, he recalls his own "night in the barrel" as a young pilot, and his fighter jockey bravado softens perceptibly into fatherly concern for his men and women aloft in the darkness.

The view of the ship from the bridge is an inspiring one -- as is just about every other sight on the carrier, above or below deck. From a weapons' hold below the waterline, ordnance officer Stephen Folsom matter-of-factly explains the methods by which guided and bunker-busting bombs, each weighing 2,000 pounds, are maintained, assembled and moved as needed to the planes above. By my rough count, the hold contains about 150 bombs -- and there are no fewer than 36 other such holds on the ship. I find myself entertaining the idea of offering the same tour to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. It would serve him well as a lesson in humility.

But while jets and bombs make for terrific tourist attractions, by far the most impressive aspect of the ship is the system that recruits 5,000-plus volunteers -- few of them older than 25 -- and teaches them to run the ship. It takes years to make a fighter pilot, and anywhere between seven to 18 months, sometimes longer, to train enlistees. "Continuity of culture" is the greatest challenge facing the Navy, says Herm Shelanski, the ship's captain. "Every year a quarter of the crew is brand-new. You don't just pick leadership and skills off a tree. You build it from the ground up."

Of the sailors I meet, some are here to make a better life; others, a different life. Paige Young, 20, joined the Navy mainly "to get out of my town" of Gillette, Wyo. What surprises her most about Navy life? "The diversity of people," she says. She now works flight ops from the bridge. David Andre, an enlisted man in his early 30s, holds a master's degree in international relations. He joined for a taste of military life and now wants to apply for the officers' course. Cynthia Trammel, 22, had wanted to join the Navy ever since her father took her to air shows of the Blue Angels. She's responsible for an inconspicuous Gatling gun at the ship's stern that can fire 20mm tungsten rounds at a rate of 4,500 a minute against incoming missiles. "I've nicknamed her 'Myrtle,'" Ms. Trammel tells me. "She is demanding."

The Navy operates 11 carriers like the Truman. No other navy in the world comes close. The Chinese, who would love to have one or more carriers of their own, recently sent their top admiral for a tour of the Truman. Adm. Gortney recalls that the Chinese were mainly interested in two things. The first was the ship's arresting gear, the heavy cables that trap landing planes. The second was the way the Navy recruits, trains, organizes and motivates its sailors.

No doubt the Chinese will one day figure out the mechanics of landing planes at sea -- and of catapulting them off the deck. I wonder if they'll ever get the human element right. The men and women of the Truman are here as a matter of their own free will in order to defend our collective right to live freely. That's more than a matter of mechanics. It's a matter of spirit: the true source of the Truman's awesome power, and of its beauty, too.

Mr. Stephens writes "Global View," The Wall Street Journal's foreign-affairs column.
User avatar
kennylibben
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:25 am
Location: I live in Off-Topic...
Contact:

Post by kennylibben »

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DqaWdkdFb3Y& ... ed&search=

There are some sequences in the beginning there that show the crew walking the deck as mentioned in the article.
It's not who you are, but what you do that defines you.
User avatar
Werner
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:10 am
Location: (42.24,-87.81)

Post by Werner »

The FOD walk is not what concerns me for the Chinese (and the British).

You could write down every procedure necessary to operate fixed wing aircraft aboard ship in a high pressure situation, and you'll have about 1/3 of the actual information you need to be efficient and safe. The rest has been passed by word of mouth by chiefs and others since the days of Langley.

The British lost this knowledge in the 1970s and the Russians never had it.
If an unfriendly power had attempted to impose on America the mediocre educational performance that exists today, we might well have viewed it as an act of war.

-- "A Nation at Risk" (1983)
User avatar
kennylibben
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:25 am
Location: I live in Off-Topic...
Contact:

Post by kennylibben »

personally i'm not a fan of sharing our stuff with the chinese.... they are the biggest threat to the US and we are handing them the tools to do the job.
It's not who you are, but what you do that defines you.
Tracy White
Posts: 10628
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:02 am
Location: EG48
Contact:

Post by Tracy White »

It's not like we have any sort of monopoly on spirit and motivation...and don't underestimate the Chinese ability at copying....

I find the author of this piece a little opn the dense side.
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman
Guest

Post by Guest »

Do not make the mistake of thinking repressed people are incapable of equal or greater patriotism than free people. We rely upon it to free good about ourselves, but it is a utter fallacy.

Do not make the mistake of thinking that the citizens of what we choose to consider to be repressive countries would not join their military forces out of free will and for eagerness to exert themselves to defend their countries.

Also do not make the mistake of thinking that armed services of repressive countries can not in fact be better organized, better trained, more motivated, and take even fuller advantage of individual initiatives than our armed services. Some of the most motivated armed forces possessed of the greatest individual initiatives in history in fact came out of some of the most repressive regimes. See the Waffen SS.

History does not bear out the smugness about our system implicit in that article.
Tracy White
Posts: 10628
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:02 am
Location: EG48
Contact:

Post by Tracy White »

Anonymous wrote:History does not bear out the smugness about our system implicit in that article.
And if you added racial overtones to it you'd have something smack out of US pre-war attitude to the Japanese military.....
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman
User avatar
Werner
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:10 am
Location: (42.24,-87.81)

Post by Werner »

You still can't pull out the Betty Crocker Cook Book and make a fine souffl� the first dozen times. You might make something tasty, but it's not souffl�.
If an unfriendly power had attempted to impose on America the mediocre educational performance that exists today, we might well have viewed it as an act of war.

-- "A Nation at Risk" (1983)
Guest

Post by Guest »

Werner wrote:You still can't pull out the Betty Crocker Cook Book and make a fine souffl� the first dozen times. You might make something tasty, but it's not souffl�.

Who is to say real souffle would win in that taste test that matters, especially when we aren't all that certain of what this test is all about? Don't make the mistake of thinking just because we are good at it, it must be the most important thing to be good at.
User avatar
Werner
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:10 am
Location: (42.24,-87.81)

Post by Werner »

Anonymous wrote:
Werner wrote:You still can't pull out the Betty Crocker Cook Book and make a fine souffl� the first dozen times. You might make something tasty, but it's not souffl�.

Who is to say real souffle would win in that taste test that matters, especially when we aren't all that certain of what this test is all about? Don't make the mistake of thinking just because we are good at it, it must be the most important thing to be good at.
Chuck, you've just said that if they can't do fast flight deck operations we shouldn't criticize them because after all it might be the paint is the most important part.

At the dog show you don't put Pomeranians against German Shepards. Similarly, Souffl� is a standard measure of a chef's performance.

If you can't make souffl�, you ought not make Dover Sole custard or other more difficult foods.
If an unfriendly power had attempted to impose on America the mediocre educational performance that exists today, we might well have viewed it as an act of war.

-- "A Nation at Risk" (1983)
Guest

Post by Guest »

Werner wrote:....................


Chuck, you've just said that if they can't do fast flight deck operations we shouldn't criticize them because after all it might be the paint is the most important part.

At the dog show you don't put Pomeranians against German Shepards. Similarly, Souffl� is a standard measure of a chef's performance.

If you can't make souffl�, you ought not make Dover Sole custard or other more difficult foods.
Let's not get carried away with misplaced metaphors.

Who is to say they will deploy carriers the way we do? Or in any way similar enough to ours so that they will be crippled by our lead? Perhaps they would proceed directly to completely automated deck operation? Perhaps they will rely on a completely different proportion of missile, UAV, and aircraft then we foresee, and their doctrine would place an entirely different priorities on different sets of proficiency? In fact when faced with an opponent with a large lead in a certain area, the natural solution is to develop doctrines to minimize the effect and importance of those areas in which the enemy enjoys the lead, and develop expertise in areas where the enemy has no great lead. All you are saying is "if no one thinks laterally, then we are sitting pretty." Precisely because we seem to be sitting pretty, everyone will be thinking laterally.
Guest

Post by Guest »

Werner wrote:

If you can't make souffl�, you ought not make Dover Sole custard or other more difficult foods.

You have no idea what the taste test is to be judged by, why are you confident that your superior skill with "difficult foods" alone would ensure your primacy? Perhaps the test is judged by what taste most like peanut butter?

I think it is far better to be vigilant about changing rules of the taste test than to be overconfident about your ability to win each time with superior souffle.
User avatar
Werner
Posts: 2299
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:10 am
Location: (42.24,-87.81)

Post by Werner »

Anonymous wrote:
Werner wrote:

If you can't make souffl�, you ought not make Dover Sole custard or other more difficult foods.

You have no idea what the taste test is to be judged by, why are you confident that your superior skill with "difficult foods" alone would ensure your primacy? Perhaps the test is judged by what taste most like peanut butter?

I think it is far better to be vigilant about changing rules of the taste test than to be overconfident about your ability to win each time with superior souffle.
"The proof is in the pudding", my dear friend.

One doesn't know dover sole from fish sticks without experience and the help of those who have gone before.

You have just made my point.

Now shall we discuss the relative merits of California, French and Australian wines?
If an unfriendly power had attempted to impose on America the mediocre educational performance that exists today, we might well have viewed it as an act of war.

-- "A Nation at Risk" (1983)
User avatar
richter111
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:47 pm
Location: Burnsville MN

Post by richter111 »

I detest fish sticks, I want FISH NUGGETS!

(Just what part does the nugget come from, and more importantly which wine?)

Thunderbird or Maddog?

Hey I am willing to part with three bucks for the good stuff now and then.

Ric

:lol_pound:
Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
Gone Asiatic
Posts: 836
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:44 pm
Location: Zipangu - Jipukuo

Real Seafood

Post by Gone Asiatic »

For real seafood, one must come to Zipangu. :jump_1:
No Quarter Asked - None Given
Image
User avatar
kennylibben
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:25 am
Location: I live in Off-Topic...
Contact:

Re: Real Seafood

Post by kennylibben »

Gone Asiatic wrote:For real seafood, one must come to Zipangu. :jump_1:
i'll buy dinner if you buy the plane tickets! :thumbs_up_1:
It's not who you are, but what you do that defines you.
Gone Asiatic
Posts: 836
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:44 pm
Location: Zipangu - Jipukuo

Re: Real Seafood

Post by Gone Asiatic »

kennylibben wrote:
Gone Asiatic wrote:For real seafood, one must come to Zipangu. :jump_1:
i'll buy dinner if you buy the plane tickets! :thumbs_up_1:
It wouldn`t be difficult for your wallet to suffer the most damage from this arrangement. :big_grin:
No Quarter Asked - None Given
Image
Post Reply

Return to “History & Technology”