Calling all USS North Carolina BB-55 & USS Washington BB-56 fans

SeanF · Post by **SeanF** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:48 pm

I've decided to have a go at the Trumpeter Washington in her Ms. 1 scheme. Couple questions, if the experts could help me:

All the photos I've seen (Navsource and Warship Pictorial) of her in Ms.1 are from May '41. The next photos with dates are in April '42 and she's in Ms. 12. (There is a photo of her working up in the Gulf of Mexico, but it's undated. The series of propeller photos from June to November '41 don't show any useful camo information). At what point was she repainted into Ms. 12 (mod)?

Most specifically, I would like to know if, during her Ms. 1 days, she ever carried the main mattery directors, AA guns, aircraft, or radar. (For that matter, were the Kingfishers, if any, in blue fuselage with yellow wings at this time?) While having un-radared Mk. 37 directors makes for an easier build, empty AA tubs and the lack of main battery directors, and planes would make an "as-commissioned" model look too wrong... I can see no end to the question, "When are you going to finish it?"

Yes, I'm trying to have my Ms. 1 cake and eat it too here.

- SeanF

Ron Smith · Post by **Ron Smith** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:28 am

Sean Hert wrote:
Tracy White wrote:Buy Steve's book and Randy Shoker's recently updated North Carolina Technical Manual
I have the first edition- is there very much different in the new one?

Vastly different.

Ron Smith · Post by **Ron Smith** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:30 pm

bb-56 wrote:I see in photos of the NC class the anchor shank goes right up the hawse pipe. So should I drill out the hawse and glue the anchor inside the hole or cut off the shank and glue it as if it where in the hole? some advice from 1/700 modellers would be very welcome.

Can't much help with midget scale but in 1/350 I normally drill out the hawse pipes and insert the stock.

bb-56 · Post by **bb-56** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:26 pm

Hayyy the trumpeter 1/700 does not have the stern AA stations, where they added in 42 or always installed.

http://www.usswashington.com/ovr_hd.gif

Harry Dente · Post by **Harry Dente** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:25 pm

They weren't there as built. Added during her Aug 1942 refit at NY. Originally occupied by 1.1" quads, and 40mm replaced all the 1.1s in 43 (May, maybe?-not sure OTTOMH)

Tshipley · Post by **Tshipley** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:49 am

Just a quick update. I will get my pics up early next week when I return to Vegas from the East coast. We were able to get to the top platform of the fire control mast. It was Great. A lot of undisturbed items up there and some missing items as well. We also got to see one of the original blue print boos for the ship. As well as the origianl Iwo Jima Map w/ the Bomabardement schedules for Dog Day.

They do have a 1.1 Inch MG mount they are currently installing that I got some pics of.

Anyone have any areas of interest let me know, I got a lot of pics and video of the ship again. The video is High Definition as well.

Tshipley · Post by **Tshipley** » Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:52 pm

Ok Here a just a couple pics. I have to disect my video and see what I need. I was able to hit every platform on the Fire Control mast for some unique perspectives.

Also included 1.1 inch mount pic.

http://www.navalyard.us/tour.htm
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Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:19 pm

Can anyone tell me how exactly you install the Lion Roar brass barrels for both the 5/38 and the 16 inch?

Frank R. · Post by **Frank R.** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:10 pm

I haven't gotten to the 5" gun installation yet but I was able to install the LR 16" barrels using the kit supplied barrels as a basis. If you cut the kit barrels flush to the base of their elevating mechanism (and I do mean FLUSH) while still retaining whats left of the kit part for each barrel you can retain the elevating feature if desired. On the LR barrel, trim off the smaller diameter aluminum pin first and file down the remaining diameter pin to prevent interfering with the turret gun support base. Super glue the LR barrel in place. The total length (turret and barrel) mirrors the length indicated on T. Walkowiak's 1/350 scale drawing supplied with R. Shoker's Tech Reference on BB55. This procedure may be academic in any event as all pictures that I have seen of BB55 show blast bags installed on the main armament and I have not found a way to install realistic appearing bags while still being able to elevate the main armament.

Frank R. · Post by **Frank R.** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:17 pm

Can anyone help me out regarding the missing section on the starboard area of the flag bridge on the Trumpeter 1.350 BB55? Exactly where and what is missing. For some reason I can't see it on the plans. Thanks to all who reply.

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:16 pm

It comes out about half the width of the platform above it, has one single porthole on the forward bulkhead, and continues aft to a point just forward of the "forward" 5" barrel if you turn the mount so that it's facing straight out.

Best photo I can offer is this one I scanned in a couple years ago when I visited NARA:

You can see the whole picture on Navsource's BB-56 Washington page (8th pic down).

Note the blurry porthole; this bulkhead followed the angle of the splinter/wind shiled above it but only extended out about half as far. It extended out from the deck below it, albeint a box ventilator took up much of the space below it.

Also note at the upper right corner of the picture is a 20mm gun mount; this was different than how North Carolina's platform was in this area and is one of the changes a modeler should consider if converting the Trumpeter 350th North Carolina kit to a USS Washington.

pbudzik · Post by **pbudzik** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:41 am

I want to do the Washington as she appeared in Nov 42, but I seem to be finding conflicting information. Musicant�s book �Battleship at War� shows a drawing of Washington labeled Nov 42. The drawing shows no stern tubs. Steve Wiper�s North Carolina Class book shows two photos labeled Sept 42 (page 56-57) with stern tubs.

Like wise, Musicant�s book suggests that Washington�s decks were not stained until her refit in July 43 when she got her 40mm�s. There is a picture showing Ching lee receiving the Navy Cross from Admiral Halsey and the deck looks like it is unstained. Steve Wipers book says that the decks were 20-B. Navy Yard photos labeled Aug 42 seem to show a stained deck.

Any help on what is correct would be greatly appreciated.

In addition, what color are the railings with measure 22?

Paul Budzik

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:12 am

pbudzik wrote:I want to do the Washington as she appeared in Nov 42, but I seem to be finding conflicting information. ::SNIP:: Steve Wiper�s North Carolina Class book shows two photos labeled Sept 42 (page 56-57) with stern tubs.

Steve's book is correct; I have a photo of her stern in August '42 documenting the installation of the 1.1" mounts and directors there.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:04 am

The naval historical center has a photo of Washington in New York after her service with the Home Fleet. It shows her in Measure 22, which she would have worn west and in the Southwest Pacific. Her decks appear to be 20-B in this photo, matching the turret tops.

It's not easy to see, but in this color photo from mid-43, she's still wearing Measure 22.

On a side note, after her collision with Indiana, she was painted in a corrupted Ms. 22. The official direction for the camouflage stated that the boarder between Navy Blue and Haze Gray run parallel to the waterline from the lowest point of the deck. in her later Ms 22, the boarder dipped lower as it approached the bow. See:

I hope these help.

Regards,

Big Rich

pbudzik · Post by **pbudzik** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:23 am

Thanks Tracy and Rich.

What color would the railings be with measure 22?

Really stupid question. I am reading that level 1 is .060 too tall. Is this the superstructure resting on the deck, or the next level?

Paul

1Big Rich · Post by **1Big Rich** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:28 pm

Based on the rule, I would say railings would have to be Haze Gray (5-H).

Is this the superstructure resting on the deck, or the next level?

I'm not quite sure what you mean, Paul. But if you mean the armored con and wigwam, the raised deck immediately above the weather deck runs from the Number 2 main battery turret to the after director.

Regards,

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:55 pm

I'm not sure at which point Trumpeter got the dimensions wrong. But if you look at the positions of the portholes in relation to the watertight doors it's visually noticable before you even measure it out. My guess is that someone simply forgot to allow for the thickness of the deck piece, but I haven't measured to see if the height is correct without it.

The instructions for Measure 22 says Navy blue to the height of the main deck at it's lowest point. Since the railings and chains would be ABOVE that, they would be 5-H as Rich says.

pbudzik · Post by **pbudzik** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:00 pm

Rich,

Sorry about the miscue (it shows my novice status with steel ships). Is level 1 the structure that rests on the "main" deck?

What is the armored con and wigwam? Sorry for what I'm sure are elementary questions.

Paul

1Big Rich · Post by **1Big Rich** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:59 pm

Hi Paul,

The armored con is short for the armored conning tower. In the top photo, it's forward just behind the Number 2 Main Battery Turret. It is easily identifiable because of the narrow slats for visibility instead of the larger portholes the rest of the superstructure has.

The Wigwam is a slang term for the forward main battery director tower. As the tower bridges on the 30s British battleships and rebuild was called a "Queen Anne's Mansion" the US BBs had their forward tower nicknamed as a "Wigwam".

Are you familiar with a tee-pee? If not, it is a Native American Indian dwelling, conical in shape, where skins are stretched over a number of saplings. Plains and Indians in the Western US used this structure. In the Eastern US, a similar dwelling was made, called a 'Wig-Wam' or 'wigwam' (pronounced like whig-wawm, a long "aw" in the second syllable). sometimes a bit more rounded, it was constructed saplings and tree bark instead of skins.

Lifting the photo from the National Historical center (without permission, I hope they don't mind) to illustrate, I've circled the main battery director tower in blue and the armored con in red. You'll have to forgive the size; the image has been re-sized by photobucket, causing some loss of color.

To answer your other question, I don't recall the USN's nomenclature for decks in the WWII era. I'm sure I saw an article about that somewhere online, (I thought maybe in the technical articles over at Warships1.com/Navweaps.com) but I cannot find it right now. But essentially, by whatever name we're calling it, the superstructure is on (or built into/through in the case of the armored con) the weather/main deck. (As I recall, the weather deck is the lowest deck exposed to the weather. In the US flush-decked pre-WWII designs, that is the 'main' deck.

Regards,

Rich

bb56 · Post by **bb56** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:16 am

Tracy White wrote: the instructions for Measure 22 says Navy blue to the height of the main deck at it's lowest point. Since the railings and chains would be ABOVE that, they would be 5-H as Rich says.

would you believe I just built 3 battleships with 5-0 instead of 5-H?

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