R.A. Burt "trilogy"

[donalyah00]

But if they simply don't care anymore, where is the problem then?

I am respecting their rights as the authors, but if they are not interested in the subject anymore why are they prohibiting any reprints?
I don't want to be too pushy, but maybe there is some way of convincing them?

Regards,
donalyah00

[linux]

All I can think is that the gentlemen don't need the money.

[Laurence Batchelor]

All I can think is that the gentlemen don't need the money.

Its not always as crystal as that, perhaps the two authors might not agree on the colour of milk.
Or other things like copyrighted material might have to be renegotiated before the reprint, depends on the original contracts.
Finally one assumes the (new) publishers would need to do their market research as there's very little money in book publishing today.

[bengtsson]

Could be that the authors are simply satisfied with the work they did when they were younger and the fact that the books are highly sought after is a sign of credit to their work. It must feel good to know one's work is so respected.
Since these works are so complete in scope, it may be a long time before anyone trys to take on that British BB subject again. I think they looked at original sources to the degree that they exist and perhaps alot new isn't out there to be found. The authors admit several times in their books that there was a limit to the sources and many questions will remain unanswered.
All the more reason for the new crop of Royal Navy researchers to take on some of the neglected subjects in RN history. Like a new complete design history reference to the Royal Navy destroyers to match the British BB and Cruiser books. There is a hint for someone . A lifetimes work just waiting to be taken on. Lesser warships that carried the brunt of WWII naval warfare need more coverage as well.

Bob B.

[Laurence Batchelor]

It's all in hand Bob, and you know it.
Also I disagree:

I think they looked at original sources to the degree that they exist and perhaps alot new isn't out there to be found.

There has been a ton of material declassified since the 1970s.
Alot particularly after the cold war ceased.

]All the more reason for the new crop of Royal Navy researchers to take on some of the neglected subjects in RN history. Like a new complete design history reference to the Royal Navy destroyers to match the British BB and Cruiser books

I think Freidman has killed my desire to do that
Also there are very few people wishing to do original naval research nowadays - its too much trouble for them.

[linux]

Or other things like copyrighted material might have to be renegotiated before the reprint, depends on the original contracts.

That's true. But remember the German language edition of R&R British Battleships was reprinted in 2002 without apparent complications. Why can't the English language edition be reprinted likewise? Are German copyright laws so different?

[bengtsson]

It's all in hand Bob, and you know it.
Also I disagree:

I think they looked at original sources to the degree that they exist and perhaps alot new isn't out there to be found.

There has been a ton of material declassified since the 1970s.
Alot particularly after the cold war ceased.

Yes, I guess I have to agree on that point. I often forget that much of the really important information was held classified for decades. This is never more clear than in modern naval history where the declassified files have given us a new way of looking at the war at sea.

I am a novice at the original research game, but just one question for you. When I make my next trip to London, and if I have time, where would I want to look to find original information [log books, official records etc. etc.] in order to research the operational history of the RN Abdiel class Minelayer Cruisers? I have begun work on it from all the published sources that I can find. Given time, I think it might be worth getting at some original material in the UK. Where would such material be held if it even exists at this point?





Bob B.

[Laurence Batchelor]

Operational research really the National Archives at Kew (full catalogue searchable online) and Naval Historical at Portsmouth which will take you alot of organising to get into.

For technical research the NMM, Brass Foundry, Woolwich Arsenal, London and the IWM Lambeth, London would be the best suited.

You will also find plans and records at Glasgow University and where ever the ship yard archives are which are more scattered across the country.

If I was you I would start at the National Archives for operational research I think you will find it the best place to start:

Start at this link below and read the Royal Navy Operational Records for WW2 and you'll be off and running:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cata ... fletID=188

Cheers
LB

[bengtsson]

Much thanks Laurence, I will do just that .

Bob B.

[Jose Chaica]

And how about a book, which would give the same Burt/Raven/Roberts treatment on British Aircraft Carriers ???
Other than the AoS book on Victorious, and the excellent (but-not-quite-extensive-as...) Friedmann book on the subject, we have....nothing else !!!

.

[Laurence Batchelor]

I believe someone is researching British Aircraft Carriers, but I'm uncertain what book form their final product will be operational/technical etc

[Jose Chaica]

I believe someone is researching British Aircraft Carriers, but I'm uncertain what book form their final product will be operational/technical etc

I�m also constantly "researching" this subject, but I don�t have plans to do such a book..
Do you have, or, could you let us know anything more substantial ???
Thanks...

.

[Laurence Batchelor]

I certainly don't, I have enough on!
But I feel there are others out there doing this sort of research.
It is a major gap in ww2 RN knowledge.

[Jose Chaica]

...It is a major gap in ww2 RN knowledge.

Not major...HUGE gap !!!
Someone mentioned that this kind of material was declassified not long ago, right???....well, let�s just hope...

.

[Laurence Batchelor]

Its not just about declassifiaction there are alot of problems with researching british warships during WW2.
To name a few which might apply to carriers:

Alot of good records for the FAA are a the FAA Museum in Yeovil, Somerset which is in the SW corner of England.
Most of the Admiralty records are in the vast labrinth that is the National Archives, Kew, London.
Anyone wanting to do their research properly would also have to visit the Imperial war Museum, Lambeth, London.
The National Maritime Museum, Greenwich and the out-station at the Brass Foundry, Woolwich Arsenal.
Naval Historical in Portsmouth.
The British Library, London
Colindale Newspaper Library, North London.

Then if one was to surpass either of the Raven & Roberts tomes added to the above one could then go through the various shipbuilders and dockyards records which could mean much time spent in Glasgow University, Scotland, Liverpool, Belfast and so on.

So basically such studies take vast amounts of time, energy, finance and motivation to come to fruition.
Publishers are not always willing to give authors the time and money and freedom to conduct such in-depth research.

[Jose Chaica]

...Publishers are not always willing to give authors the time and money and freedom to conduct such in-depth research.

It must be a "Labour of Love", then...

.

[linux]

There has been a ton of material declassified since the 1970s.
Alot particularly after the cold war ceased.

How much of that material would relate to the technical history of British warships? I can understand that certain operational / political history would remain classified (e.g. to protect reputations or cover up mistakes), but I can't believe that much WW2-era technical history would remain too sensitive for the 30 year rule, apart from nuclear stuff.

But of course we don't know what we don't know!

[Laurence Batchelor]

How much of that material would relate to the technical history of British warships? I can understand that certain operational / political history would remain classified (e.g. to protect reputations or cover up mistakes), but I can't believe that much WW2-era technical history would remain too sensitive for the 30 year rule, apart from nuclear stuff.

But of course we don't know what we don't know!

Most technical design material for WW2 and the 1930s (which I assume is what you would be interested in?) is with the National Maritime Museum.
There are also records at Bath (RCNC) and Portsmouth (Naval Historical but also the Dockyard records).
Depends entirely on what your looking for.

When we consider the age of such works such as Roskill, Raven & Roberts, Hough, Dominy etc they don't have the benefit of signals intelliegence such as ULTRA and I also believe they were hampered with not having access to alot of material which since then has come to light.
Remember researching in-depth often involves being fed snippets to begin with and then once one knows what to look for one might stand a chance.
I suppose one academic from my university put it best its almost 'follow the thing' one lead leads to another which reveals something else which then might tell you what your looking for.
If one is suddenly made aware of something which ocurred operationally, or say a new photograph is discovered things set in motion and the above pattern occurs.

Further, I still believe there would be valuable material still in the possession of the RN on such topics as engineering, damage control, electronic warfare, radar which have yet to be cleared for depositioning with the NMM or NA through 'institutional lazyness' or red tape.