Calling all Essex-class (WWII configuration) fans

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:16 am

Hancock in '45 is one of the great mysteries for me.

Some of the information on the Shipcamouflage CV database I can't verify so I leave it in place rather than changing it and making MORE errors. We know that Hancock was in a solid color for part of 1945 based on photos you can see on her Navsource page. Yet a February 1945 memo called for her to be painted in the 1945 mod Measure 12. Which version of 5-N was used; Navy Blue or Gray? I don't have a good answer for that other than I believe the she was at first painted in Navy Blue, but have no information one way or the other as to whether or not she stayed that way for the rest of the war.

I'm hoping that the NARA San Bruno will have records of Hancock's work at Pearl, but I haven't been able to make it down there yet... I'm hoping to sometime this winter or next spring. If I can't find anything there then I've got to go back to COllege park which has a LOT more documentation, but that means I have more to wade through and filter in the same amount of time.

bb-56 · Post by **bb-56** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:52 pm

ddp wrote:jgrease, look at these links.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-25_mk10_pic.jpg
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5- ... ia_pic.jpg
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5- ... co_pic.jpg
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5- ... on_pic.jpg
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5- ... et_pic.jpg

Thanks, for you 700th ppl how about the midships models weapons sprue it has bases with fuse setters for the 5" singles

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:47 pm

Frank O'Neill wrote:Question for all you Essex fans. If the Dragon 1/700 Essex kit has a flight deck with only 1 cat molded in how can other short-hulled ships be built from this kit? Enquiring minds want to know..........

Other ships also had a single deck cat... most of the first six (off the top of my head Essex, Yorktown, Intrepid, Hornet, Franklin, Lexington, maybe Bunker Hill) had a single cat for about the first half of their wartime service.

Ship Model Gallery · Post by **MartinJQuinn** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:24 pm

Steve,

I went back through the thread (whew!), but didn't see any mention of how you tackled the armor belt on your Yorktown. Do you mind sharing what you did to replicate that?

Thanks,

Ship Model Gallery · Post by **MartinJQuinn** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:00 pm

MartinJQuinn wrote:Steve,

I went back through the thread (whew!), but didn't see any mention of how you tackled the armor belt on your Yorktown. Do you mind sharing what you did to replicate that?

Thanks,

I cut and pasted Steve's step by step tips (with thumbnails and some pictures) into word. So far it's a 27 page document!

Post by **ModelMonkey** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:01 pm

MartinJQuinn wrote:Steve,

I went back through the thread (whew!), but didn't see any mention of how you tackled the armor belt on your Yorktown. Do you mind sharing what you did to replicate that?

Thanks,

Hi Martin!

Actually, that's the original kit armor belt, nothing modified. I had a bad time bonding and smoothing the seam along the belt. The seam kept popping open after filling and sanding. It happened so often it made my hair hurt. If I were to do it over again, I'd back the seam with some strip styrene and epoxy the hull top to the bottom.

Ship Model Gallery · Post by **MartinJQuinn** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:23 am

Steve Larsen wrote:
MartinJQuinn wrote:Steve,

I went back through the thread (whew!), but didn't see any mention of how you tackled the armor belt on your Yorktown. Do you mind sharing what you did to replicate that?

Thanks,
Hi Martin!

Actually, that's the original kit armor belt, nothing modified. I had a bad time bonding and smoothing the seam along the belt. The seam kept popping open after filling and sanding. It happened so often it made my hair hurt. If I were to do it over again, I'd back the seam with some strip styrene and epoxy the hull top to the bottom.

Okay, this is interesting...I went back and looked at the Yorktown kit last night. I never even noticed the armor belt before! However, when I pulled out the Essex kit - no armor belt!! It was the Essex (which I plan to do as CV-12) that made me ask the original question. Strange that one hull has it and one does not...

Thanks Steve. Keep those pictures coming - your Yorktown is amazing.

Devin · Post by **Devin** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:09 pm

MartinJQuinn wrote: It was the Essex (which I plan to do as CV-12) that made me ask the original question. Strange that one hull has it and one does not...

There's a few things missing from the original Essex kits that show up in the later models, and even later pressings of the Essex kit: the round-downs on the flight deck ends, armor belt, the recessed mooring line chocks low on the hull, etc. (of course I have one of the first pressings that doesn't have ANY of those items).

-Devin

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:51 pm

If Martin's already got the word document together the work's 90% done... all we need is a PDF generator installed on his machine and he can create it in a minute or two and then upload it. Now, the question is, at 30 pages with lots of pictures, how BIG will it be? My guess is pretty large.

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:06 am

Here's part of a letter I just submitted to Sea Classics magazine with some corrections to an article in their December 2007 issue.

"Evolution of the Essex Class Fleet Carriers" is a good basic text and selection of photographs, but there are a few inaccuracies I wish to comment on. The photograph of Essex in 1942 was a censored copy of the original and thus, the note that her radars were not installed is incorrect. I have a copy of the original and it clearly shows the forward Mk 37 director radar and radars on the mast, albeit they and the aft Mk 37 are somewhat obscured by smoke from the stacks.

Additionally, Essex herself never received a hangar catapult and received an older model flight deck catapult that was different than anything her later sisters went to sea with. The rush to get her to the Pacific was such that the Navy did not wait for the new H-4 model catapult and installed a H-2 such as was installed on the Yorktown class and USS Saratoga. Two H-4 catapults were in storage for her at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard but as she never went into overhaul at Puget Sound during the war they were never installed and post war photographs in 1949 show her still with the single catapult.

The table on page 19 contains some errors regarding which ships were long or short hulls; CVs 13 (Franklin), 21 (Boxer), and 31 (Bon Homme Richard) are were short hulls but are not labeled as such.

Finally, the caption on page 19 for Essex states that the class was the first to have overhanging side elevators. This is only partially true. CV-7 Wasp had a side elevator but it was little more than an outrigger and could only carry a single aircraft and no crew or tugs. The Essex class was the first to have a true side elevator platform.

The last time I did this I got AD Baker fired* (NOT MY INTENT!) so I'm hoping this one goes over better.

*I think they were gunning for him and used my letter as an excuse.

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:18 pm

Chris Toops' CV-9 Essex hit the gallery.

Chris Toops · Post by **Chris Toops** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:02 am

Steve, This is the first time I've posted on this wonderful forum. Although I have benefited immensly for other's postings. Tracy and Keith H.'s help was invaluable. I have followed the progress of your Yorktown. I can't wait to see it completed. It will be georgeous. On Essex I totally missed all the exterior detail that you added. I did all the fuel, darin etc. lines but sure missed all the other bulkhead supports/braces. By the time I saw your progress photos Essex's hull was painted and the flight deck was attached. Also I think your way of dealing with the gallery decc openings was brilliant. I simlpy opened them and tried to file back the thick edges. Anyway, keep up the great work. Glad you liked Essex.

Capt652 · Post by **Capt652** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:13 pm

Mr. Toops,

What a great ship! The amount of detail is amazing! I spent the last 30 minutes studying the picture posts with my jaw dropped... and by the way nice job with taking the pictures.

A couple questions please, what is a MV lense that you used on the spotlights? Is lead foil available at hobby shops?, I guess I never looked for it so I don't know the source for it. And how did you mold the air deflector bracing. (I gave up on GMM PE air deflectors, way too frustrating trying to glue all those little braces straight.)

IMHO this models rates with the top models in the gallery!!

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:06 pm

MV Lenses.

Chris Toops · Post by **Chris Toops** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:17 am

Steve, The trumpeter a/c build up pretty easliy. I did have to do a little work on the wings of the F-6F's and TBM's to make the folded wings look right. First I painted the wing area black where the walking strips would be on the wings. Then these were covered by a thin strip masking tape. I airbrushed the white and dark sea blue colors. I used some thin strips of masking tape to mask of the white on the sides of the a/c. For the middle color I brushed on Vallejo's # 060 Intermediate Blue. The Vallejo paint leaves no brush marks. The cocpit area was brused with zinc chromate. The weathering was done over a light coat of future. Decals were applied at this time. The pannel lines were painted in with a water color product called Gouache. Any overages can easliy be removed with a wet paint prush. Oil stains were done with atrist oils. The planes were flatted with Poly Scale flat. The cockpit glass was futured and the metal structure was hand painted. Several of these steps had to be repeated as I put the wrong ID markings on the wings initailly. I used GMM for the props and landing gear covers(not the tires). Some modifications were made to make them more accurate. Three sets of GMM decals were consumed to complete the 35 a/c. Hope this helps. More info needed? let me know.

Chris Toops · Post by **Chris Toops** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:50 am

Capt.652. I am glad you liked the Essex.I am amazed at the reception it has received. Ok. To your questions.

1. Beleve it or not the lead foil came from my dentist. It is the backing for the x-ray tabs they use. He looked at me kinda funny when I asked him to save some for me. He gave a envilope of about 20 pieces years ago. I have used it for a many scratchbuilding projects. There are some commercially available products at hobby shops.

2. The wind deflector bracing was made from strip styrene. Yep, I took one look at the GMM braces and said "nope".

3. MV lenses are heavily used in model railroading. The web site that Tracy sent is a very good one. Mark Klutchko is the owner. He'll help get what you need. They come in tremendous variety of sizes and colors. I have used them for head lights on armor models and landing lights on a/c.

4. About the number of hours, I have no idea. I started the ship last Dec. and finished it last week. I'm retired so I wound up working on it nearly every day for sveral hours each day. My wife is very happy to see me again. I never tried a project othis scale before. Keith Hufnagle's Yorktown was the inspiration for this build. I primarily build a/c and armor. About every two or thre years I get the urge to do a ship. This was my fourth. My first in 1/350.

5. The camera I used is nothing fancy. It is our household camera. It is a Nikon 4600 digital.

lisec · Post by **lisec** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:05 am

so it is quite possible that she was repainted in measure 12 as per instructions...?

OK,let`s look at this from this point:
has any of these ships

CV 11 INTREPID
CV 12 HORNET
CV 16 LEXINGTON
CV 19 HANCOCK
CV 20 BENNINGTON
CV 31 BON HOMME RICHARD

(in the document, they recieved the same repaint orders(into M 12))

made the change into a new measure?

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:39 am

Regarding Ms 12; CV-16 Lexington did, "on or about" May 15. I've got the document from Puget Sound that states this and a Photo that shows it. She's the only one I've found primary (I.E. official Navy) documents for regarding Measure 12.

The the AOTS Intrepid ship book states Intrepid was painted in Measure 12, but gets the colors wrong (uses the old 5-S and 5-O colors) so I'm not sure I trust it, especially as the lighter portion looks lighter than 5-O to me.

This book has a photo of her that's probably MS 12 1945 edition. Records are in the archives that would help but I haven't been able to make the trip to locate them yet.

Hancock... ahh dear old Hannah....

Keep in mind, at this point the only real difference between Ms 12 and 22 was the color of the paint above the main deck (Haze or Ocean Gray).

Ship Model Gallery · Post by **MartinJQuinn** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:30 pm

Tracy White wrote:You can see she's a solid in this picture, which is dated "between 26 January and 7 February 1945," but we have no idea as to the veracity of the claim. Plus, when did it happen?

Questions Questions Questions....

I wonder if that photo is mis-dated. The photo below it, which says it's from April, seems to show she still in dazzle.

lisec · Post by **lisec** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:49 pm

i`m in a dillema...WEM has for deck gray(also as a standard deck gray),haze gray,navy gray a revised or neutral color option? which do I need for a revised measure 22?