Atlantic Fleet transfers post Pearl Harbor

[Sean Hert]

Does anyone know how the fleet distribution changed after the attack on Pearl Harbor? I was wondering what, if any, Atlantic fleet assets moved to the Pacific Fleet.

[MartinJQuinn]

Does anyone know how the fleet distribution changed after the attack on Pearl Harbor? I was wondering what, if any, Atlantic fleet assets moved to the Pacific Fleet.

Sean,

Start here, which will tell you what was where on 7 Dec.

I know Yorktown was hastily "refitted" at Norfolk and sent west almost immediately. To know who else was sent to the Pacific, you'd have to find the Atlantic Fleet ships, then go to that ships DANFS page on Haze Gray and Underway to check their movements.

[Tracy White]

Let me see if I can get Ernie Arroyo to comment here....Also, check out the PearlHarborAttacked message boards... there might be something there.

[Ernest Arroyo]

TF 17, Yorktown CV-5 with Sims DD-409, Hughes DD-410, Anderson DD-411 & Hammann DD-412 departed San Diego 6Jan42 escorting a convoy to Samoan waters. Then Joined up with Enterprise group 31Jan42 for raids on Marshall and Gilbert Islands in Feb42. BatDiv Three, Idaho, New Mexico & Mississippi and several DD's sailed for West Coast arriving on 31Jan42 for gunnery training and upgrades. Idaho sailed to Aleutions in May42. New mexico and Mississippi operated between the West coast and Pearl Harbor till June before sailing to the Central Pacific. The four CL's, Brooklyn CL-40, Philadelphia CL-41, Savannah CL-42 & Nashville CL-43 and a large number of DD's (most were West Coast based) that transferred to the Atlantic Fleet in May41 remained in the Atlantic Theatre for most of the war. No other major combat ships transferred to the Pacific in 1942.
Pretty much the Pacific Fleet was on its own until new ships became available in late 1942 into 1943.

[Sean Hert]

That is EXACTLY what I needed! Many thanks!

[Dick J]

Don't forget the Hornet group in March of '42, and the Wasp group in late June.

[ar]

TF 17, Yorktown CV-5 with Sims DD-409, Hughes DD-410, Anderson DD-411 & Hammann DD-412 departed San Diego 6Jan42 escorting a convoy to Samoan waters. Then Joined up with Enterprise group 31Jan42 for raids on Marshall and Gilbert Islands in Feb42. BatDiv Three, Idaho, New Mexico & Mississippi and several DD's sailed for West Coast arriving on 31Jan42 for gunnery training and upgrades. Idaho sailed to Aleutions in May42. New mexico and Mississippi operated between the West coast and Pearl Harbor till June before sailing to the Central Pacific. The four CL's, Brooklyn CL-40, Philadelphia CL-41, Savannah CL-42 & Nashville CL-43 and a large number of DD's (most were West Coast based) that transferred to the Atlantic Fleet in May41 remained in the Atlantic Theatre for most of the war. No other major combat ships transferred to the Pacific in 1942.
Pretty much the Pacific Fleet was on its own until new ships became available in late 1942 into 1943.

Approximately seventeen destroyers completed in the December1941 to May 1942 time frame. WHat happened to them?

HOw many destroyers transferred to the Pacific in the first six months of the War?

How many ships appear in the Pacific in the first six months of the war in camouflage measure 12A? I ask, as these ships (with Atlantic camouflage) had been transferred from the Atlantic after 7th December 1941.

[ar]

In my post I mentioned Measure 12A as the Atlantic camouflage. This was a mistake, and I should have written Measure 12R.
Every ship photographed in 12R in the Pacific would have been transfered from the Atlantic.

[Tracy White]

Approximately seventeen destroyers completed in the December1941 to May 1942 time frame. WHat happened to them?

If you've got their names you should be able to find that out in their Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships entry.

[ar]

Approximately seventeen destroyers completed in the December1941 to May 1942 time frame. WHat happened to them?

If you've got their names you should be able to find that out in their Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships entry.

I have the names, but am pressing EO to provide proof.

[Tracy White]

He's a busy guy and not a regular contributor. I wouldn't press too hard.

[ar]

He's a busy guy and not a regular contributor. I wouldn't press too hard.

It's his choice.

[Ernest Arroyo]

I should have made it clear in my response that I was referring only to the ships that transfered from the Pacific Fleet to the Atlantic in May 1941 and then back to the Pacific Fleet in the months following the attack on Dec.7th.

Hornet arrived at Midway on 13April to join up with Enterprise for the Doolittle raid. Wasp did not reach the South Pacific until 18July.

I'm not sure if I'm EO or not, but if you have the names of the 17 DD's what do you need from me?

[Rick E Davis]

I'm not sure which ships you include in the category of seventeen "completed" destroyers between December 1941 to the may 1942 time period. I have learned that just because a ship was "Commisioned" does NOT mean it was "completed". The only Destroyers completed before June 1942 were Benson/Gleaves class units. The first units of the "Bristol" group needed a large amount of work done at their Home Navy Yards to meet the new armament standards required. After awhile (~March-April 1942) the building yards started to delivery these ships with the new configuration.

In order of commissioning;

DD-453 Bristol (Comm 22 Oct 41) Completed Jan 42 with 8-10 MGs for AA armament
DD-454 Ellyson (Comm 28 Nov 41) Completed Feb 42 with a quad 1.1-in. and five 20-mm guns
DD-457 Emmons (Comm 5 Dec 41) Completed Mar 42 armed as Ellyson
DD-463 Corry (Comm 18 Dec 41) Completed Mar 42 armed as Ellyson
DD-455 Hambleton (Comm 22 Dec 41) Completed ~Mar 42 armed as Ellyson
DD-461 Forrest (Comm 13 Jan 42) Completed Apr 42 armed as Ellyson
DD-464 Hobson (Comm 22 Jan 42) Completed Mar 42 armed as Ellyson
DD-458 Macomb (Comm 26 Jan 42) Completed Apr 42 armed as Ellyson
DD-456 Rodman (Comm 27 Jan 42) Completed ~Apr 42 armed as Ellyson
DD-462 Fitch (Comm 3 Feb 42) Completed May 42 armed as Ellyson

The above ten units were all assigned to the Atlantic Fleet.
The next eight units were assigned to the Pacific Fleet.

DD-483 Aaron Ward (Comm 4 Mar 42) Completed May 42 armed as Ellyson
DD-484 Buchanan (Comm 21 Mar 42) Completed May 42 armed as Ellyson
DD-459 Laffey (Comm 31 Mar 42) Completed ~Apr/May 42? armed as Ellyson
DD-460 Woodworth (Comm 31 Mar 42) Completed ~Apr/May 42? armed as Ellyson
DD-491 Farenholt (Comm 2 Apr 42) Completed Apr 42 armed as Ellyson
DD-485 Duncan (Comm 16 Apr 42) Completed Apr 42 armed as Ellyson
DD-486 Lansdowne (Comm 29 Apr 42) Completed Apr 42 armed as Ellyson
DD-598 Bancroft (Comm 30 Apr 42) Completed Apr 42 armed as Ellyson

The following shp was asssigned to the Atlantic Fleet.

DD-640 Beatty (Comm 7 May) Completed unknown and completed armament is uncertain but likely armed as Ellyson

The following four units were assigned to the Pacific Fleet.

DD-492 Bailey (Comm 11 May 42) Completed May 42 armed as Ellyson
DD-487 Lardner (Comm 13 May 42) Completed May 42 armed as Ellyson
DD-488 McCalla (Comm 27 May 42) Completed May 42 armed as Ellyson
DD-599 Barton (Comm 29 May 42) Completed May 42 armed as Ellyson

These are the 23 of the Benson/Gleaves class commissioned/completed in the early months of the war through the month of May 1942. Six more units were commissioned in June. Some were delivered with the quad 1.1-in. mount. But many, if not all of the units completed in June, were upgraded in July with two twin 40-mm mounts when the 40-mm mounts became available. The Pacific Fleet units listed here served in some of the major early campaigns.

I believe that all of these units completed through the end of May 1942 were painted in Ms-12R as reflected in as delivered photos. The Beatty built at Charleston NY is a wild card in that the USN Yards many times commissioned destroyers well before they were "completed". How soon these ships were repainted to Ms-21 or Ms-22 is not my area of expertise.

Also, four units in DesDiv 22 ... Gwin (DD-433), Meredith (DD-434), Grayson (DD-435), and Monssen (DD-436) ... were transferred to the Pacific Fleet after serving in the Atlantic pre-war.

Please forgive any typos ...

[ar]

TF 17, Yorktown CV-5 with Sims DD-409, Hughes DD-410, Anderson DD-411 & Hammann DD-412 departed San Diego 6Jan42 escorting a convoy to Samoan waters. Then Joined up with Enterprise group 31Jan42 for raids on Marshall and Gilbert Islands in Feb42. BatDiv Three, Idaho, New Mexico & Mississippi and several DD's sailed for West Coast arriving on 31Jan42 for gunnery training and upgrades. Idaho sailed to Aleutions in May42. New mexico and Mississippi operated between the West coast and Pearl Harbor till June before sailing to the Central Pacific. The four CL's, Brooklyn CL-40, Philadelphia CL-41, Savannah CL-42 & Nashville CL-43 and a large number of DD's (most were West Coast based) that transferred to the Atlantic Fleet in May41 remained in the Atlantic Theatre for most of the war. No other major combat ships transferred to the Pacific in 1942.
Pretty much the Pacific Fleet was on its own until new ships became available in late 1942 into 1943.

I have to count destroyers that went to the Pacific as major combat ships as they are designed to fight with the Battleline.

Were not the four Atlantas transferred to the Pacific, and on station by mid year?

The North Carolina reached the Pacific in June.
The South Dakota reached the Pacific in July.

[Tracy White]

Alan, are you differentiating between units that were built up for the Pacific and served in the Atlantic fleet for their shakedown and those that were meant to be assigned to the Atlantic fleet but then transferred? It seems to me that most of the carriers were designed and built expressly for the Pacific Theater and only served in the Atlantic during their shakedowns and workups.

[ar]

Alan, are you differentiating between units that were built up for the Pacific and served in the Atlantic fleet for their shakedown and those that were meant to be assigned to the Atlantic fleet but then transferred? It seems to me that most of the carriers were designed and built expressly for the Pacific Theater and only served in the Atlantic during their shakedowns and workups.

The way to look at it, is to keep it simple. As follows:
How many units in the Pacific in December 1941?
How many units in the Pacific at end of June 1942?
How many units in the Pacific at end of September 1942?

Units = Battleships, Carriers, Cruisers, Destroyers.

[Filipe Ramires]

Units = Battleships, Carriers, Cruisers, Destroyers.

Why not submarines as well???

[ar]

Units = Battleships, Carriers, Cruisers, Destroyers.

Why not submarines as well???

Your choice.

[Tracy White]

I'm not trying to keep it simple. There are times when KISS will bite you on the butt.

*IF* a unit was built on the east coast, but even before commissioning was intended for service in the Pacific Fleet, do you count that as a transfer from the Atlantic to the Pacific fleet? That's all I'm asking.