At 'Em Arizona Fans!

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:42 pm

Direct line to aforementioned YKM rafts.

I should say, those are for the 25-man rafts, there is also a 40-man oval set that might be appropriate... I'm not familiar with the dimensions of each to know which are shown in this picture.

Tony Bunch · Post by **Tony Bunch** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:30 pm

Hi Guys,
Last Friday night, I acquired the TMW 1/350 resin Arizona 1941 kit.
The instructions are pretty good. The overall kit is pretty good. I will be inquiring with Tom about a replacement boat deck, as the majority of the 5"25 open mount splinter shields don't look to have "filled" completely, and the 5"51 closed mount facia area has a seam running partallel across most of it. Unless I am unable to get a replacement part, I'll have to trim away all of the splinter shields and add on my own. With all of my recent experience studying Arizona, I might get on this fairly soon.
This build will take a while..............and guess what........I'll be painting her blue!
Tony

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:58 pm

I believe that Tom sold his molds for his Arizona kit to Commanders as well....

Kym Knight · Post by **Kym Knight** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:00 pm

I am attempting to build Tom's 1:350 Arizona for April 1940.
Question 1: Did she have the red turret tops or did she have the hull number painted on #2 turret top like USS West Virginia?
Question 2: Am I right in saying the machine gun tub on top of the front tripod had not been installed?
Question 3: Am I right in painting all verticle surfaces, including the top section of the tripods (1941 - off white) standard navy grey?
Question 4: Did she still have the hull mounted broadside guns intact?

It's impossible to find any photos of Arizona in this time frame as the paint/colour guys kept changing things month to month.

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:26 pm

1) Well, we know that turrets were colored back in the 1930s, but also that the colors may have changed. The February '41 order from Kimmel was just the latest clarification. May have had red turret tops on 1, 2, and 4, might have been different. However, Stillwell's Arizona book shows a dark color on Turret 4 on page 214, dated March 1939, that would rule out white and yellow, and probably black. Latest I can find photographic evidence of the number 39 on turret 2 is February '36.

2) Erm... well, there was never a tub on the front tripod fighting tops, only a platform and pedastal for a radar that was not mounted. The tub on the aft (aka Main) tripod's fighting top wasn't installed until her last overhaul in December '40 - Jan 1941.

3) other than the top of the smoke stack yes.

4) She did on December 7th as well. For that time period you will most likely need an extra 5"/51 as she had two on the boat deck... just aft and outboard of #2 turret.

ModelWarships Gallery Page · Post by **ArizonaBB39** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:31 am

Kym Knight wrote: Question 3: Am I right in painting all verticle surfaces, including the top section of the tripods (1941 - off white) standard navy grey?
Question 4: Did she still have the hull mounted broadside guns intact?

An addendum to Tracy's post. All of the metal decks on the superstructure would have been deck grey, would they not?

Kym, do you mean the casement broadside guns, or the guns actually mounted in the hull? The casement broadside guns (just below the boatdeck) were still there, but the actual hull mounted broadside guns had all been removed and plated over by that time.

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:05 am

ArizonaBB39 wrote:the actual hull mounted broadside guns had all been removed and plated over by that time.

Actually, they had been moved up a level, from just below the main deck, to the main deck, during Arizona's modernization in 1929-31. The Casemates were still there, just plated over as Abe said, so that if you were in the hull in that area you'ld still see evidence of them.

Brian OConnor · Post by **Brian OConnor** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm

Just for clarification, ARIZONA carried 22, 5"/51's in her original configuration in 1916. There were sixteen on the main deck, two abaft the superstructure, and four on the 2nd deck aft. By 1920, the four forward-most on the main deck and the four on the second deck had been removed, leaving fourteen in service. During the 1929 - 31 major overhaul, ARIZONA lost two more of the main deck guns and the remaining ten guns were moved up one level to the forecastle deck. The two from the superstructure were located on the now expanded boat deck. The ship retained this basic configuration for quite some time, until the two boat deck guns were removed, to be replaced with quad mount 1.1" AA guns.
As for the wood covered decks; after the 29 - 31 overhaul , there should be wood showing only on the main deck aft (Quarterdeck), the forecastle deck, and the boat deck. All other exposed decks were painted steel.

Something to remember . . . by U.S. Navy standards, the main deck or first deck, is the highest full length deck. The exception is in aircraft carriers, where the main deck is the hanger deck. Therefore, in ARIZONA the main deck is the same level as the quarterdeck, and running the entire length of the ship. The deck below the main deck is the second deck, and so on. Deck levels above the main deck can have various names. In modern ships, the deck above the main deck is the 01 level (pronounced "O-one"), and the deck above that is the 02. As an example, on USS CONSTELLATION, my first ship, the open signal bridge on top of the island was the 010 level. In ARIZONA, the deck above the main deck was the forecastle (foc'sle) deck, and the one above that was the boat deck.
I hope this helps.

Kym Knight · Post by **Kym Knight** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:27 pm

This picture, cropped from page 215 of Stillwell's book show's the rear part of the forward superstructure in 1939 - 40. Is the area circled the 5" directors?

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:29 am

I'm not all that strong at pre-war directors, but it is HALF of a director, from what I understand. The circled area and the aft corners of the top level of the superstructure were to work in concert; one did range (elevation) and the other bearing; when Arizona underwent her 1940-41 overhaul new directors that did both were installed.

ModelWarships Gallery Page · Post by **ArizonaBB39** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:28 am

Kym, you could always take the easy way out, if all else fails, and just put the canvas covers over it

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:53 am

Kym, check out the plans on page 375

Dick J · Post by **Dick J** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:13 pm

Kym Knight wrote:Thanks for that Tracy, ya havn't got any ideas as to what type it's called so I can try and find a picture of it somewhere?

The director system is the MK-19, the same as carried on the Lexington's, the Pensacola's and the Northampton's. There is a shot of Nevada in Friedman's Battleships book, on page 185, that shows it uncovered. However, it is not totally clear. I wish someone could post a high-res version of that pic here! These two separate elements were relocated and combined into the boxy directors carried by the battleline at Pearl and the Northampton's and Pensacola's. (And were still called MK-19's.)

Kym Knight · Post by **Kym Knight** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:59 am

Thanks for that info Dick. I have Friedmans Destroyer, Cruiser and Carrier books but not the battleship edition. Tried Googling the MK - 19, but no luck. Even if I got a hit, it would probably be the later version.
Those canvas covers are looking more appealing.

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:29 am

You see the canvas covers in a lot of pictures... about the only place you DON'T is in yard photos... I suspect they were in place more to hide them from prying eyes than weather. I've actually got some good photos of Mk 19s, but they're the later variety. I found some documentation on ones being assembled for the Cruiser Salt Lake City in 1939 and they are Mk 19 *mod 59* directors, so you can tell they underwent a lot of redesign....

shipmodeler · Post by **shipmodeler** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:31 pm

Does anybody know the release date of the Trumpeter 1:200 Arizona kit?

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:06 pm

Not me. I bet Tom Harrison from Tom's modelworks does, but he probably can't say

Joe R. · Post by **Joe R.** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:11 am

I'm looking for photos of the Arizona's propeller shaft v-struts so I can attempt to scratch-build them properly. I'm building the Revell model and I'd like to fix this area.

Another thing is the rudder I'm scratch-building is based on the actual ship's rudder from an old photo and the Fine Art Model Arizona. But from what I've seen on the Mini-Hobbie and Trumpeter kits,and some side profile drawings show the rudder was shaped differently. Was the actual rudder changed during the Arizona's lifetime? Just a question that popped up.

Thanks

Tracy White · Post by **Tracy White** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:23 am

I'll look through the Stillwell book, but I don't recall anything on the V-struts.

Regarding the rudder, it's possible something was done when she was blistered, but I've never read anything about that type of change.

Brian OConnor · Post by **Brian OConnor** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:55 pm

There is a photo of Arizona on the builders ways (I don't have my copy of Stillwell's book with me right now to give you the page), prior to the installation of her propellers, that shows her struts. Neither the struts nor the rudder was changed when the torpedo blisters were added. Additionally, though their work is very good, do not go by Fine Art Models as an absolute for their detail. They too have some discrepancies. And . . . as for the Revell kit, the hull in the area of the shafts and struts is dished in farther than it should be, so your struts will be a bit longer than they should be for the scale.

The Ship Model Forum

At 'Em Arizona Fans!

Trumpeter 1:200 Arizona

Arizona's prop shaft V-strut question.