Calling all Yamato (大和) and Musashi (武蔵) fans

[Anonymous]

I was going over a couple of pictures on the Maru Special book of the Chokai and Maya I bought. It has some cool pictures of both vessels, nevertheless I was kind of disappointed when I got it though. The reason I bought it was because of Maya, the book only has 4 pictures of ship in 1944. I can�t do much with these, I do like one shot that shows Maya�s superstructure. You can see clearly the front of the bridge structure. Anyways, I wanted to show this pic which I found interesting, picture is dated 1941 and it was taken at Kure. That ship in the background of Chokai is either Yamato or Musashi.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd10 ... kai2-1.jpg

If it was taken at Kure in 1941, then it would most likely be the Yamato. Musashi would still be fitting out at the Mitsubishi shipyard in Nagasaki in 1941, and would not be finished until second quarter of 1942.

[blandcorporation]

Can anyone tell me who makes the best 1:700 photo etch?? I have seen many sets but I dont what is best.

By the way skuki, I'd recommend the Tamiya yamato in 1:700. I just bought it yesterday and the detail is so much crisper than the Fujimi. IMHO the only thing the Fujumi has going for it is a more detailed hull with porthole covers.

[MartinJQuinn]

Can anyone tell me who makes the best 1:700 photo etch?? I have seen many sets but I dont what is best.

I used the Eduard set for my 1/700 Musashi and liked it a lot.

[skuki]

By the way skuki, I'd recommend the Tamiya yamato in 1:700. I just bought it yesterday and the detail is so much crisper than the Fujimi. IMHO the only thing the Fujumi has going for it is a more detailed hull with porthole covers.

Thanks, that is what I wanted to know. AFAIK there are two tamiya kits, old and new, and I am planning to buy one on e-bay. Could you tell me how to know which box art is for new and which for old.

[Seabee Mike]

While reading "Battleship Musashi" by Akira Yoshimura, I saw the image below that indicates what Musashi looked like after "the reinforcement of its anti-aircraft armament". Three additional 12.7 mounts can be seen in filled port and starboard (matching Yamato).



Earlier today, I found another picture of Musashi under attack in the Sibuyan Sea on October 24, 1944. The three port and starboard 12.7 mounts aren't visible.



It would appear that the picture in Yoshimura's book is incorrect.

I am also curious if Musashi's 19 torpedo hits and 17 bomb hits is the most damaged ever sustained by a battleship.

[Anonymous]

That ship is certainly not Musashi (top pic).

[Drazen]

Both pics show Yamato.

[Seabee Mike]

Both pics show Yamato.

Can you elaborate?

[Dick J]

Both pics show Yamato.

Can you elaborate?

Yamato had her beam 6.1" turrets removed and 6 additional 5" twin mounts were added, giving her a total of 12 mounts with (obviously) 24 guns. These are visible in both the drawing and the photo. Musashi was modified to receive the extra 5" mounts, but they were not available at that time, so more 25MM triple mounts were "temporarily" installed. She was sunk before the extra 5" guns became available. In the drawing, the 6 additional 25MM triples along the deck-edge outboard of the 5" guns were added to Yamato after Leyte Gulf. Musashi never carried them.

[Drazen]

Thank you Dick.
In addition - Yamato (top) & Musashi (down) configuration during SHO-GO operation (Battle of Leyte Gulf), 1944.




Also pay attention to linoleum strips on rear deck and compare their position with your second photo - it clearly shows it�s Yamato

[Anonymous]

I am also curious if Musashi's 19 torpedo hits and 17 bomb hits is the most damaged ever sustained by a battleship.

All those battleships whose magazines blew up probably sustained more damage.



Sorry, I know what you meant. But it is not an easy question to answer. It is the largest number of torpedo or bomb hits ever absorbed by a single operational ship prior to sinking, but that does not automatically correlate to the greatest amount of damage suffered.

In the grand scheme of maritime mayhem, Musashi wasn't particularly badly damaged when she sank. Her citadel, propulsion plant, magazine, and steering was mostly intact, there were no widespread structural failures, she was basically in one piece, if fatally perforated.

Yamato herself took only 13 torpedos, but those had warheads twice as powerful as what hit the Musashi, and her vital citadel was thus extensively penetrated. I think it was fair to say both from this, and from the length of time each ship was able to linger after the last hit, that Yamato suffered considerably more damage than Musashi.

There are other ships that proportionally took more hits in relation to their tonnage before their sinking. Scharnhorst comes to mind. She is credited with taking 12 torpedos on a hull half as big as Musashi. I don't know if she was in a more damaged state at the time of sinking compared to Musashi.

Tirpitz was certainly in very sorry shape after taking 3 earthquake bombs. Her midship section was ripped out and her TDS detached from the ship. I don't think either Yamato or Musashi suffered anything like this scale of damage prior to sinking.

The Italian battleship Roma experienced a main magazine explosion, and amazingly didn't go straight to the bottom. I would think her damage considerably exceeded Musashi's as well.

So I don't think there is a really meaningful answer to your question.

[Anonymous]

You shouldn't forget North Carolina which nearly foundered after hitting a stray dolphin...

Funny, wiki says

"Skillful damage control by the crew of the North Carolina and the excellence of her construction prevented disaster"

[rtheriaque]

In reading more and more about these leviathans (most recently, Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors and Sea of Thunder, amongst others), I'm taken back to why I started modeling in the first place. Every ship has a personality or mystique, from a "lowly" minesweeper to the most powerful of warships. Yamato and Musashi are the epitome of this in my eyes for the Japanese Navy in World War II. Other ships have powerful legacies as well (Akagi comes to mind), but nothing seemed to capture the spirit of their empire in quite the same way.

In a way, their manner of sinking just adds to the legend. How many hits did Yamato take throughout the war? I know a sub had a shot at her (for some reason, without doing research the Skate comes to mind, though I'm most likely wrong). She took hits at Leyte as well. I wonder if Yamato must conjure similar feelings to Japanese historians as Arizona does to Americans.

Sorry for the ramble... Sometimes free-form writing can be as interesting a release as modeling. Unfortunately, I did mine publically

[Anonymous]

You shouldn't forget North Carolina which nearly foundered after hitting a stray dolphin...

Funny, wiki says

"Skillful damage control by the crew of the North Carolina and the excellence of her construction prevented disaster"

Actually, North Carolina didn't come anywhere near foundering after that one torpedo hit. She took onboard remarkably little water as a result, only 800 tons. The Wiki author was too stupid to know that in that by patriotically exaggerating the accomplishment of the American crew, he is very unpatriotically putting down the quality of the American ship.

[Anonymous]

In a way, their manner of sinking just adds to the legend. How many hits did Yamato take throughout the war? I know a sub had a shot at her (for some reason, without doing research the Skate comes to mind, though I'm most likely wrong). She took hits at Leyte as well. I wonder if Yamato must conjure similar feelings to Japanese historians as Arizona does to Americans.

Sorry for the ramble... Sometimes free-form writing can be as interesting a release as modeling. Unfortunately, I did mine publically

Both ships took one torpedo hit during their service lives prior to their final, fatal engagements. Yamato took a couple of bombs in Leyte gulf, but nothing serious. Neither ship led very active service lives as the Japanese husbanded them for a single, climactic engagement.

The Japanese certain retain a reverence for the ship Yamato that exceeds American reverence for the ship, as oppose to the incident, of Arizona. A list of Japanese books on HLJ covering the Yamato would make that clear. Not knowing their language it is hard for me to say exactly what motivated this particular reverence. I think guessing from a different cultural background the emotional motivations of another people usually leads to misconceptions.

[Anonymous]

Thank you Dick.
In addition - Yamato (top) & Musashi (down) configuration during SHO-GO operation (Battle of Leyte Gulf), 1944.

Also pay attention to linoleum strips on rear deck and compare their position with your second photo - it clearly shows it�s Yamato

Drazen & Dick - Thanks for the updates. Can you tell me where these two images were from? Seems like a resource I should have.

PS - Just won (surprisingly) a Tamiya Yamato for $47 - looks like I can now build one each rather than only Musashi.

[Seabee Mike]

Drazen & Dick - the above reply was from me. I didn't realize I wasn't signed on when I posted.

Thanks for the info and any additional info you can provide.

Mike

[Seabee Mike]

I have seen this appear in the 1/100 Super Scale Yamato Model book by Gakken. Does anyone have any additional information on the emergency rudder? Drawings or photos, or where to find them, would be great.

[devil505]

I started the Yamato about 5 years ago and only made it thru the sub ass. for the superstructure.

It has laid in the box since.

[Yamato1701]

I started the Yamato about 5 years ago and only made it thru the sub ass. for the superstructure.

It has laid in the box since.

WOW! I thought I was taking along time with Musashi. Well as long as it gets done before the end-of-days it still counts as a good build.