Calling all American Civil War Ironclad fans

[Rusty White]

*bump*


Currently building Verlinden Production's CSS Atlanta - basics are finished, she's on her base. I need to know what exactly did she have on her bow - was it a spar torpedo like some of the other ironclads? Also, would like to know whether her boat placement was similar to other ships like her. Thanks!

I have some simple drawings from the Confederate Naval Museum and they do not show any boat(s). However, it is HIGHLY unlikely the Atlanta operated without at least one. Its not unusual for artists and naval architects to leave such features off since they have nothing to do with the actual vessel design. These drawings look as though they were quickly made during an inspection for the USN after she was captured. The notes on the drawing are mine.

Since there is no definitive placement mentioned, there are two likely places a boat (lets assume she had only one). The most likely would probably be the stern since Tennessee and other CSS vessels carried boat(s) there.

The second but less likely IMHO, would be on the starboard side of the casemate between the gun ports. Your call.

The Atlanta did sport a torpedo spar, but I'm not sure exactly sure when it was added. I can only assume she had the spar from the beginning. The first mention of the spar torpedo is mentioned in Iron Afloat as June 16, 1863.

Below is the drawing I have. Sorry about the poor quality, but it's the best I could produce without putting a lot of Photo Shop time in it. You should be able to make out the general arrangement and rigging. Note the spar "davit" on the bow (the curved part).

[Timmy C]

Thanks a lot for that, Rusty. The kit suggests that she carried two boats at the stern, with two davits. Any precedence for that?

The picture also confirms what I had feared: Verlinden's Atlanta has the gun locations on the starboard side incorrect - the model has both sides' locations the same, when it seems that one side differed from the other.

[Rusty White]

Thanks a lot for that, Rusty. The kit suggests that she carried two boats at the stern, with two davits. Any precedence for that?

The picture also confirms what I had feared: Verlinden's Atlanta has the gun locations on the starboard side incorrect - the model has both sides' locations the same, when it seems that one side differed from the other.

I have seen Verlinden's Virginia and.... how can I say this politely. Much of the detail is less than accurate. In particular the casemate ceiling. Verlinden shows it as wood decking and that is absolutely incorrect. The Virginia used a metal grid to ventilate the vessel because she carried only two vents fore and aft of the stack to provide the boiler with air. The "general" shape is correct, but deck details (plating and wood decking) leave a lot to be desired. I haven't seen their Atlanta, so I will assume it is a work of art worthy of historical mention. It's a common mistake manufacturers make concerning Civil War ironclads that the gun ports are identical on both sides. Not so! This has proven incorrect many times, so more research is required to verify these details.

Yes there is a presidence of dual life boats on the stern of CSS warships. In particular the Tennessee. The location was verified by the Confederate Naval Museum so that's good enough for me. See the drawing from my instruction sheet for the Tennessee. I would hazard a guess that this arrangement is as good as any if you wish to mount multiple boats. I have seen single boats mounted dead center on the stern but for obvious reasons (it would have to dropped before firing the cannon) it is not a good design choice.

Ships like Tennessee as SOP would tow their boats during battle behind the ship which would explain why many artists renderings of battles do not show them. Plus they had little time to make a quick sketch during a battle.

Hope this helps.

[Timmy C]

Ahh I see. Thank you, that makes some things easier =)

[bb-56]

Here is a link to a full scale replica of USS Monitor:

http://www.nn.northropgrumman.com/USSMonitor/index.html

1/1 scale modelling!

[herrmill]

Here's a video that features The Old Navy's RC ironclad models that were on featured display during the March dedication of the Mariners' Museum Monitor Center in Newport News, VA. They were invited to stage a re-enactment of The Battle of Hampton Roads using 1/32 models of Monitor & Virgina. Talk about dedication... they drove their collection all the way from Los Angeles for the event!!

I've been in contact recently with Steve Lund of Old Navy who is one of the co-authors of the book I referenced earlier Modeling Civil War Ironclad Ships . Bill Hathaway's black powder firing cannon is well worth the free download.

Steve has been extremely helpful with information & plans that I would never have found on my own. He also tooled 1/72 rivet plate skins for Union monitor hull & turret, & is currently working on a canopy for the turret. Steve & Bill Hathaway's book is an excellent primer for anyone interested in modeling ships of this era.

Interest appears to be growing as we already have a few over at RC Groups forum planning to build in scales ranging from 1/72 to 1/24. With the Dumas kit hard to find or being priced out of reach - a recent eBay listing ended at $360 without the reserve being met! - am certain more scratch building will result.

I plan to build USS Tecumseh & CSS Tennessee who faced each other in Mobile Bay in 1/72, & plan eventually to do USS Monterey that served here in Shanghai & on the Yangze while on China Station a century ago. Her ballast system & dual turret arrangement should make for an interesting subject. This should make my neighbors happy to see something besides a rising sun ensign on the local waterways...


Chuck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMnEmFW0XPk

[Guest]

Does anyone remember who made a monitor vs "merrimack" css virginia kit? I built it in the 70s and it was a great full hull set. The scale was around 1/350 to 1/200 I think about 10" long for the Virginia. 8-9 for the Monitor.

[Obiwan3]

I think it may have been a Lindbergh kit. I vaguely remember it as being molded in a light blue plastic.

As to no small boats on board in combat - that was most likely a habit from the "Fighting Sail" days. When ships of the line went into combat, they trailed their boats to reduce the risk of splinters from the boats. Guess the habit was so ingrained, they even did it for their ironclads.

[Rusty White]

As to no small boats on board in combat - that was most likely a habit from the "Fighting Sail" days. When ships of the line went into combat, they trailed their boats to reduce the risk of splinters from the boats. Guess the habit was so ingrained, they even did it for their ironclads.

I believe it was a matter of practicality. In many cases there was nowhere to put the boats that would not block one of the main guns. The CSS Chicora is an excellent example. Since the casemate covered most of the ship, the boats were mounted on the side of the casemate. One boat actually blocked a gun port. The CSS Neuse and CSS Albemarle had a single boat in the center of the stern deck blocking the aft gun port.

[Timmy C]

Does anyone remember who made a monitor vs "merrimack" css virginia kit? I built it in the 70s and it was a great full hull set. The scale was around 1/350 to 1/200 I think about 10" long for the Virginia. 8-9 for the Monitor.

Yes, the molds switched hands a couple of times, between Lindberg, Pyro, and some other American companies. FSM has an ariticle on this kit in their September '07 issue, IIRC.

[bb-56]

Does anyone remember who made a monitor vs "merrimack" css virginia kit? I built it in the 70s and it was a great full hull set. The scale was around 1/350 to 1/200 I think about 10" long for the Virginia. 8-9 for the Monitor.

Yes, the molds switched hands a couple of times, between Lindberg, Pyro, and some other American companies. FSM has an ariticle on this kit in their September '07 issue, IIRC.

Hi that was me posting I think it was this kit! life like

http://modelstories.free.fr/analyses/av ... tor_BA.JPG

[Devin]

I've read in several places that during the bombardments of Fort Sumter the Union ironclads would often leave their boats behind with the tugs during the run-in and bombardment.

[herrmill]

Has anyone seen this kit before? I know its considered a niche subject for many but the kit detail is amazing. Certainly not priced at the old Dumas level but then again
in a totally different class by itself.

http://www.speedline-models.com/page24.html

I'm trying to get their interest to sell fittings separately for a Canonicus Class build I am starting this month as I get my feet wet in scratch building.

Chuck

[Devin]

That does look like an impressive kit. I'm not familiar with it. Thanks for pointing it out. Knowing my sick and twisted mind, if I got it then I'd want to leave the deck and hull clear and full detail the interior.

[herrmill]

I received word today that Speedline will be offering fittings separately for this kit for anyone interested in detailing the Dumas kit or scratch building a Civil War ironclad monitor or ship.

For those living in the colonies, Loyalhanna will be carrying these in addition to the kit. Don told me he was very impressed with the detail of his first kit that arrived last week.

Chuck

[Devin]

I'm at the final stages of the USS Weehawken, ready to hang the ship's boats. They hang from standard davits, as you can see in the photo below. My question is how was the rope/line that actually attached to the boat to hang it attached? Was there an eyelet in the bow and stern? Did they wrap it around a bit or chock in the boat?

Anyone have any ideas, and -- better yet -- photos?

Thanks,

Devin

[Charles Landrum]

The boat has two eyebolts for lifting - one in the bow and one the stern. The davits of that period often had a double block (two sheaves) at the top and and a double block at the bottom of each fall. The blocks provided mechanical advantage in lifting/lowering since it was done by hand. The bottom block had a hook to catch the ring on the boat. Later quick release devices were invented, but not then AFAIK. HTH

[RickF]

This might help - it's from May's "The Boats of Men-of-War".

[Devin]

Thanks guys. That helps a lot. Now I'm looking through the kit manuals on the Model Expo site to see how in the #$@#*!! you rig double blocks.

[ScottOram]

This diagram should help with the tackle.



The entire website is FULL of great rigging diagrams.

http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/B_S_M/Contents.html