USS Constellation CV-64 to be scrapped

[Avery Boyer]

According to Navsource, Constellation is scheduled to be dismantled "in the next five years." Would that be in five years or over the next five years? Remember Coral Sea? I'm pretty sure the owners of Seawitch Salvage haven't forgotten. Sent the entire company under after it took them 7 years to finish the job of scrapping her. And why are we scrapping Constellation anyways? She's a valuable asset that could be sorely missed. It's a such a waste to see ships sit in mothballs for just a few years or even a few months before being sent to the breakers or the bottom of the ocean. It shall be very interesting to see where this goes and how the unfortunate company given charge of this project handles it. By the way, does anybody know how deep the Brownsville ship channel is?

[SumGui]

Bent shaft, poor material condition.

That's the reason she was not sent to Japan as originally planned.

[Werner]

If you will all remember, she is my property, and I have offered to rent her to H. M. Government, if they'd make up their darn minds.

She could be had for, as I recall, a few hundred million in repairs and $200 million a year in upkeep. At this price these big ships will float and operate literally forever. The nukes are much more expensive due to the refueling costs, which are several billions at a stroke rather than pennies at the pump every morning.

Quite a ship compared to that Donald Duck thing they are currently trying to build with Froggie help and considerably less expensive to the British taxpayer. Oh, but there is that national (and EU) pride thing. Look, we bought your Airbus tankers, be a sport and buy HMS Constellation!

[chuck]

At this price these big ships will float and operate literally forever.

Not true. Even with proper normal maintenance a ship's hull and plating still deteriorates and will eventually need reconditioning on a scale similar to building a new ship. 50-60 years seems to be about the limit a large steel ship can merely exist before major renewal of large section of the ship would be required.

[Werner]

At this price these big ships will float and operate literally forever.

Not true. Even with proper normal maintenance a ship's hull and plating still deteriorates and will eventually need reconditioning on a scale similar to building a new ship. 50-60 years seems to be about the limit a large steel ship can merely exist before major renewal of large section of the ship would be required.

Don't listen! Everyone knows Chuck takes money from Newport News Shipbuilding and Drydock Company.

Every day I walk over a steel bridge built before WW.I. I have a lot of confidence in these ships.

[Avery Boyer]

Bent shaft, poor material condition.

That's the reason she was not sent to Japan as originally planned.

Could that explain this too?

In April 2004 Navy officials identified ex-Independence as one of 24 decommissioned ships available to be sunk as artificial reefs. As of February 2008, however, she was scheduled to be dismantled in the next five years.

I wonder if this disturbing trend will continue with Kitty Hawk and JFK, should museum efforts by some extremely highly impossibly unlikely twist of fate fail.

[chuck]

Kitty Hawk is being offered to India as a sweetener to encourage India to pick F-18E over Russian, French and Swedish alternatives.

[Werner]

Kitty Hawk is being offered to India as a sweetener to encourage India to pick F-18E over Russian, French and Swedish alternatives.

Given Indian dissatisfaction with Russian products, this sounds like a very attractive deal. It would certainly move India's naval prestige even higher. On the other hand, it would represent a real threat to China, who looks to some of the same ocean for it's future.

[Avery Boyer]

Kitty Hawk is being offered to India as a sweetener to encourage India to pick F-18E over Russian, French and Swedish alternatives.

I thought that was a screw-up by someone on Wikipedia. Makes sense though.

[Werner]

Just checked: According to Business Week, India itself floated the rumor in order to renegotiate a reasonable price for the additional work on Gorshkov. They used Secretary Gates' visit to India as the moment to both float the story and send their envoy to demand a discount. Very clever.

[JWintjes]

I wonder what the Indians would want with one Kitty Hawk - but then I don't really understand the rationale behind buying Gorshkov either.

Anyway, as Junior VP HMS Constitution Inc. responsible for marketing I should add that together with the ship comes a package of, uhm, sweeteners for those making the political decisions...

Jorit

[Werner]

I wonder what the Indians would want with one Kitty Hawk - but then I don't really understand the rationale behind buying Gorshkov either.

Anyway, as Junior VP HMS Constitution Inc. responsible for marketing I should add that together with the ship comes a package of, uhm, sweeteners for those making the political decisions...

Jorit

I hear "Kirsten" is now available again!

[JWintjes]

I wonder what the Indians would want with one Kitty Hawk - but then I don't really understand the rationale behind buying Gorshkov either.

Anyway, as Junior VP HMS Constitution Inc. responsible for marketing I should add that together with the ship comes a package of, uhm, sweeteners for those making the political decisions...

Jorit

I hear "Kirsten" is now available again!

Hmmm, I've heard she has been rather temperamental of late - better go the Brazilian way, that way we'll have the German trade unions in the bag...

Jorit

[Gerarddm]

Moving on from babes in toyland, a more pertinent question: how did Constellation get a bent shaft?

[Devin]

Don't listen! Everyone knows Chuck takes money from Newport News Shipbuilding and Drydock Company.

Every day I walk over a steel bridge built before WW.I. I have a lot of confidence in these ships.

But does that bridge stand in salt water and have the continuous stresses from the motion of the sea applied to it?

[Werner]

Don't listen! Everyone knows Chuck takes money from Newport News Shipbuilding and Drydock Company.

Every day I walk over a steel bridge built before WW.I. I have a lot of confidence in these ships.

But does that bridge stand in salt water and have the continuous stresses from the motion of the sea applied to it?

Far worse! It was built in Chicago, is two levels tall, and accommodates rail and road traffic at the same time as being movable to allow river traffic over a large navigable waterway.

[Seasick]

But does that bridge stand in salt water and have the continuous stresses from the motion of the sea applied to it?

Far worse! It was built in Chicago, is two levels tall, and accommodates rail and road traffic at the same time as being movable to allow river traffic over a large navigable waterway.

Sorry Werner that bridge has life easy compared to the hull of a warship. Ocean water is brutal to metals of all sorts. Lake Michigan, the Chicago air, and the river don't place nearly the strain on that bridge that steel in a ship hull would encounter. That bridge looks like it is small enough that it can be inspected in a few days and kept reasonably well painted.


--------------------------

Back to the topic

Since the Coral Sea was scrapped the price of scrap steel has gone way up. All the copper wire out of the ship should fetch a good price on its own. China is buying up all the scrap metal in sight. Steel mills in the USA that were going out of business 10 years ago are filling orders from Chinese customers becuse the supply is so tight.

[Werner]

Sorry Werner that bridge has life easy compared to the hull of a warship. Ocean water is brutal to metals of all sorts. Lake Michigan, the Chicago air, and the river don't place nearly the strain on that bridge that steel in a ship hull would encounter. That bridge looks like it is small enough that it can be inspected in a few days and kept reasonably well painted.

I guess you've probably never been to Chicago and enjoyed the street salt, the glory hole which is The Chicago River, or our fabulous air pollution (which used to be far worse).

In 20 years of standing outside, the casing and part of the hull of U-505 dissolved. It had to be rebuilt following her move underground.

[Werner]

[
Back to the topic

Since the Coral Sea was scrapped the price of scrap steel has gone way up. All the copper wire out of the ship should fetch a good price on its own. China is buying up all the scrap metal in sight. Steel mills in the USA that were going out of business 10 years ago are filling orders from Chinese customers becuse the supply is so tight.

Which makes me wonder. the SCB 110.66 modification to Midway went way over budget, partially due to unexpected deterioration in the electrical system. I wonder how these others have fared.

[chuck]

--------------------------

Back to the topic

Since the Coral Sea was scrapped the price of scrap steel has gone way up. All the copper wire out of the ship should fetch a good price on its own. China is buying up all the scrap metal in sight. Steel mills in the USA that were going out of business 10 years ago are filling orders from Chinese customers becuse the supply is so tight.

Not saying that's not true, but it is surprising considering China imported only 1/10 as much steel as did the US in 2007. According to ISSB, China was largely self sufficient in steel production, producing 490 million tons of steel while importing only 5 million tons. The US produced only 97 million tons of steel while importing 45 million tons.

Where ever increased American steel production is going, it's not likely going to China.