Researching gun origins

[Devin]

I've lived in Hoboken for over six years now and have walked past some cannon in one of the parks a few hundred times, I'm sure. With my recent ironclad research, it came to my attention that the guns are Dahlgrens, either 9 or 11 inch, I haven't measured the bores yet.

Where do I need to look on these guns -- two of them in wrought iron mounts -- to get the serial numbers (there are numbers in a couple of places on the tubes) and then where can I reference those numbers to see where the guns may have been used?

[HMAS]

From memory the wording should be about 12" in front of the powder hole for firing, muzzle loaders.
If breech loader, around the breech
RML for rifled muzzle loader etc proof date & stamp, calibre, serial no. Usually about 3/4" high lettering & obscured by lots of paint over the yrs.
during the day I'll check to see if that is the correct loc for all of Dahlgreens, but thats where our marks are.

[kennylibben]

Just send an inquiry to your town council or whoever, somewhere there are bound to be records - that will also probably tell you WHY they have the cannon.

[Brian OConnor]

Collect all of the data, numbers and letters, from the muzzle, top of the tube near the vent, and both rim bases (where the trunnions meet the tube), and the ends of the trunnions. That should give you the foundry and founders number, date of acceptance, the inspector, the piece number, the weight, and possibly the service. Please post the results here and I'll try to find out what I can on the history of the guns.

Thanks

[Devin]

Thanks for the info, guys. Brian, I'll get those numbers soon, I took some photos of the barrels on Monday but only got the numbers by the vents. I'll go back and see what's near the muzzle and trunnions.

Kenny, yes that does seem the easiest course, but I don't trust the city council to know much beyond building parks for yuppie rug rats.

[Brian OConnor]

Kenny, most towns / cities have poor records as to when and where old artillery pieces were obtained. in fact, many gave up their guns to metal scrap drives during WWII, so many historic tubes were melted down for other uses. Also, there is the fact that they are guns, and as you may be aware, guns are evil . . . or so the democrats say. So, again, most towns don't know diddly about the old cannon on the court house lawn. The other side of the coin is that there may be all sorts of stories about the cannon . . . some of which may even be true. While researching two cannon sitting at the main gate of the U.S. Naval Station in San Diego, I was told a grand tale of how they got there and the battles they saw action in. Then I got permission the inspect them. The cannon were non-functioning replicas !!!

Devin, I have, over the past few years, worked with a few of the "experts" on old cannon. One of those runs the Registry of Surviving Civil War Cannon. So, when I get those numbers and such, I'll contact him and see what he has on your Dahlgren tubes.

[Werner]

Just send an inquiry to your town council or whoever, somewhere there are bound to be records - that will also probably tell you WHY they have the cannon.

Kenny, you're awfully optimistic. Check the VFW hall instead. Odds are it's their property anyway.

[kennylibben]

Unfortunately neither of the 2 towns I claim (and almost guaranteed would both claim me if I were to gain fame) have any sort of statue or ordinance on display. The closest thing is a memorial that is pretty much a tombstone with the names of locals who died in WWII.

[Brian OConnor]

Kenny, as I mentioned, many towns gave up their display cannons for scrap drives. You might want to check with the local historical society to see what used to be, or might have been there before the world wars.

Also; cannons, ammunition and such are "ordnance"; the other thing, "ordinance", with an "i", is a rule or law.
Yeah, besides stuff on the USS Arizona, I'm picky about spelling too. It's an "old guy" thing I guess.

[kennylibben]

I don't think either town ever had anything - they are both small towns, the largest having a population of 1200, although in the 1860s the smaller town (now) was up to 1600 people.

As for spelling, touch�! I didn't pay close enough attention to my typing!

[Werner]

That's OK. You'd be amazed how many papers I have received where the author relied on MS-Office to make sure (incorrectly) they had used a word (which was spelled correctly, whether used rightly or wrongly).

One of the lost pleasures of looking up a word in a real dictionary is reviewing the etymology of the word to see if it's history gives the reader the most exact clue as to your intent when you used it.

Real writing tools like a thesaurus, a style guide and a dictionary are still essential, no matter what technology you use.

[chuck]

Take it from an expert, spelling and grammar are all over rated. And that's from someone who's never scored less than 99%+ on any standardized English test I've ever taken, including GRE!

[Werner]

Take it from an expert, spelling and grammar are all over rated. And that's from someone who's never scored less than 99%+ on any standardized English test I've ever taken, including GRE!

On what planet? Either this is some form of English with which I am otherwise unaccustomed, or perhaps you should consult a neurologist about the stroke you must have had since then.

[chuck]

Cenozoic Earth, holocene English. Judging by your advanced age, you will suffer crippling strokes long before I.

[Charlestonguy]

I've lived in Hoboken for over six years now and have walked past some cannon in one of the parks a few hundred times, I'm sure. With my recent ironclad research, it came to my attention that the guns are Dahlgrens, either 9 or 11 inch, I haven't measured the bores yet.

Where do I need to look on these guns -- two of them in wrought iron mounts -- to get the serial numbers (there are numbers in a couple of places on the tubes) and then where can I reference those numbers to see where the guns may have been used?

I know this was an old posting but I have found a site that list a number of guns.
http://www.cwartillery.org/ws-reg.html

A couple of excerpts from the website.

"U.S. Navy Cannon, 1820-1871
Most U.S. Navy cannon have the founder's identity, Registry number, and weight marked on the base ring or, on those lacking one, along the base line behind the vent. The initials of the officer inspecting are found on the left trunnion, usually beneath a "P" for "Proofed." The year of manufacture is found on the right trunnion, frequently below the cannon's bore size designation. Prior to 1855, the weight is usually marked using the British hundredweight system; after 1855 it is expressed in pounds. A plain anchor is found on the tube top between or behind the trunnions of most iron Navy cannon dated after 1840. A fouled anchor and other identifying markings are found on top of the tube behind the trunnions and on the upper breech of Dahlgren boat howitzers."

"Confederate Cannon
No known Confederate army or navy regulation specified the marking of cannon. Therefore, Confederate foundry marking practices were inconsistent. Registry numbers were not always assigned or required. Bronze Napoleons cast by Augusta, Columbus, and Macon Arsenals have nearly all markings on muzzle faces, including Registry numbers, much like the U.S. Army during and after the Civil War. Cannon made by Leeds, Reading, Tredegar, and some others generally reflect pre-Civil War Army marking practice. Other than the three arsenals mentioned, however, none consistently assigned Registry numbers differing from its own internal foundry numbers. With the exception of some Brooke rifles bearing their own series of Registry numbers, a fourdigit foundry number on the upper muzzle face served as the identification number of cannon cast by Tredegar. Many surviving cannon tubes, considered to be authentic and of Confederate origin, bear no markings."


I have used this stie for a number of years now.
Hope this helps.