Richelieu's guns were not re-bored for RN shell

[Michael Potter]

Sean's review of the 1/350 Richelieu mentions an often-published but fictional assertion that her 38cm guns were re-bored for RN 15-inch shell. In fact the original bore was retained. The US produced 38cm shells specifically for her.

In 1944 a consideration against deploying Richelieu to the Indian Ocean was that she could not fire RN shell. She was sent anyway. See H. P. Wilmott, "Reinforcing the Eastern Fleet: 1944" in Warship X.

[Sean Hert]

Sean's review of the 1/350 Richelieu mentions an often-published but fictional assertion that her 38cm guns were re-bored for RN 15-inch shell. In fact the original bore was retained. The US produced 38cm shells specifically for her.

What references show this?

[Michael Potter]

Two on-line sources:
French 380 mm/45 (14.96") Model 1935 (Updated 22 July 2007)
US manufacture of 15-inch shells during WW2

The relevant passage from Ned Wilmott's article, referring to February 1944:

The Richelieu at that time was serving with the Home Fleet, and had attracted favourable comment for her sea-keeping and steaming qualities, her heavy tertiary armament and her good performance in exercises and operations. Unfortunately for the Admiralty she suffered from three major weaknesses: first, her radar was poor; second, her ammunition requirements could only be met by the Americans; third, she was French.

Notice too the complete absence of distinction in reliable published works between the guns respectively aboard Richelieu and Jean Bart. The Germans sent the 38cm guns originally built for Clemenceau to Norway, although they were never mounted there. Postwar Norway offered the guns to France, which enabled France to arm Jean Bart with them and thus to complete her as a battleship instead of converting her to an aircraft carrier or discarding her incomplete.

[Sean Hert]

I knew not buying "Les Cuirass�s: Dunkerque, Strasbourg, Richelieu & Jean Bart" by Robert Dumas was going to bite me in the rear. Not that it really would have helped, since I don't read French.

[bgire]

Don't worry Sean :
John Jordan is writing a major book on the French battleships (1921-1950) which will extensively cover :
- the Washington treaty unbuilt projects (including the 37,000tons battlecruiser of 1927 I re-discovered in the French military archives)
- Dunkerque and Strasbourg
- Richelieu and Jean Bart
- Clemenceau and Gascogne
The book will use Robert Dumas famous trilogy as a main source with numerous corrections (facts re-discovered since the '80's). It should include recent findings on Clemenceau and Gascogne I made in the archives which led to the new plans of both ships "as designed" as redrawn by Harold Winkel of Wien, Austria.

... and all this stuff with numerous pictures, many original plans... IN ENGLISH !

To be published by the second half of 2009


Another indirect proof of Richelieu guns not being re-bored :
After the war, both Richelieu and Jean-Bart again used French calibre shells from prewar stock and postwar production. As they still had their original barrels (for part) and ex-Clemenceau barrels one wonders how they could have fired smaller shells in through a larger bore...
One of the ex-Jean Bart/ ex-Clemenceau barrel is still on display at the entrance of the Penfeld (the Brest Navy Yard)... but only visible from a distant bridge as it is located in a restricted zone.

Here is a shot of the barrel :

[chuck]

Is it possible that the original barrels were unchanged, but the rifled liners were rebored to 381mm? If this is the case, then the original barrels could have its rebored liners replaced after the war so it could fire 380mm French shells again?

[bgire]

I had asked author Robert Dumas about this when we first met two years ago.
He told me no re-boring had been done on Richelieu's barrels.
As Robert interviewed many former Richelieu and Jean-Bart former officers when he did researches for his trilogy, I'm convinced he's right.
He also found no proof of "back" boring in the French Navy archives.
He based his writings on the Richelieu logs, French Yard logs and BuShip archives.

What he told me is :
- During her Brooklyn refit, Richelieu had three of her "B" turret barrels (guns #5, 7 and replaced by three out of the four barrels from Jean-Bart "A" turret. Those three barrels had been damaged during the Dakar Battle, due to over pressure following a design defect in the breech. No liner were replaced.
- The fourth barrel from the Jean Bart was shipped to the Dalhgren gun test range and was used here to test the 380mm, French calibre shells, a bunch of which was specially made by the Crucible Steel Company of America.
- After the War, refit logs don't show any change in bore. The only main turret refit took place in Brest from January 1950 to October 1951 : "A" turret got one brand new barrel (gun #1), one formerly seized by the German and brought back from Meppen (gun #2), from Norway (#3) and from Octeville, Normandy (#4) where the German had planned to use them as shore batteries. "B" turret got the former "A" turret barrels. Again, no change of calibre.