Tales of Empire

[Jack Ray]

This a quote from the history of the screw corvette (later third class protected cruiser) HMS Champion from "World Warships In Review 1860/1906" by John Leather (Copyright 1976 John Leather, Macdonald and Janes, London):

Like several of her class, the Champion served on the Pacific station and during 1890 was the largest ship there, supported by seven smaller sloops and gunboats. Her service was in the middle of a long period when the British Navy kept world peace and was respected in the remotest places. An instance illustrating this occurred in Guatemala during 1874. Mr. Magee, the British vice-consul at the port of San Jose, who was also a merchant, offended the local military governor who ordered him to be seized and flogged in public. After a hundred lashes, Magee's punishment was ended by intervention of the master of an American merchant ship, then in port. When news of the incident reached England a squadron of the British Pacific fleet was sent to San Jose, which then had no rail communication and could be reached overland only over very poor roads. However, the British compelled the Guatemalan government to send a battery of artillery from the capital and to fire salutes to the British flag continuously from dawn to dusk. On the same day a regiment of Guatemalan soldiers had to march in public over their national flag, trampling it in the dust in expiation. Magee received 100,000 dollars, compensation and remained in Guatemala to become a wealthy merchant and a Briton held in considerable awe.

I thought I should share this extraordinary story.

hmschampion3.jpg

[chuck]

Mr. Vice Consul McGee must never have expected to be able to make his fortune in such a manner. One minute he was consigned to playing second fiddle at possibly the deadest of deadend posting in the entire British foreign service, the next minute he was wealthy beyond the dreams of avarice and having the strongest navy in the world acting on his behalf. And all he he needed to do was to make himself so obnoxious to the locals that they were compelled to breach diplomatic protocol to punish him.

[G. Shoda]

Outrageous to make soldiers of a sovereign government trample their own flag!

[phil gollin]

Fascinating, I'd never heard of this.

I couldn't find any real story covering it, but I found these links (isn't the web weird) ;

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=174V ... #PPA171,M1

(page 171)

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http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-fr ... ref=slogin

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http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/documentatio ... 4_add1.pdf

(page 23, para 88)

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http://www.antiqbook.co.uk/boox/empir/108851.shtml

[RNfanDan]

Outrageous to make soldiers of a sovereign government trample their own flag!

Almost as outrageous as flogging a foreign consul in public!

[Jack Ray]

Things were handled differently in those days. It beats going to war.

Another title for this could be "Say Uncle!"

Jack

[Jack Ray]

Fascinating, I'd never heard of this.

I couldn't find any real story covering it, but I found these links (isn't the web weird) ;

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=174V ... #PPA171,M1

(page 171)

--------------------------------------

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-fr ... ref=slogin

----------------------------------------

http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/documentatio ... 4_add1.pdf

(page 23, para 88)

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http://www.antiqbook.co.uk/boox/empir/108851.shtml

I like the antiqbook synopsis "a low point in diplomatic relations"!

[Gerarddm]

Now THERE'S guboat diplomacy for ya!

[Lesforan]

Well, I guess they showed them alright...........

[Werner]

Has anyone considered 100 lashes? That is the legal limit for Federal punishment, and intended for officers who have been convicted of a high crime by courts marshal, roughly the equal to death by hanging but less honorable.

I realize the French and the British in their zeal have ordered a harsher punishment by the cat, but anything approaching or exceeding 100 lashes properly administered is roughly a death sentence.

Certainly no foreign power has the right to inflict any physical punishment or confinement on an ambassador of any recognized nation. I would say the British were within their rights (of the era) in making sure the Guatamalans understood their obligations as a member of the community of nations.

[chuck]

I realize the French and the British in their zeal have ordered a harsher punishment by the cat, but anything approaching or exceeding 100 lashes properly administered is roughly a death sentence.

Actually all judicial flogging was prohibited in the French military by the Napoleonic war. Royal Navy is known to sentence offenders to 500 or 1000 lashes. However by the time frame of this incident even RN has formally suspended the practice of flogging.

[ASFC]

Outrageous to make soldiers of a sovereign government trample their own flag!

Would you rather we sent troops ashore (or the ship firing it guns in anger) and sacked their towns and cities and put them under our rule/or open war? The numerous things which could have been given as 'punishment' for floging the vice-consul (instead of some quick public humiliation) are far worse than walking over your own flag. Other posters have also pointed out they got off quite lightly for attacking an Ambassdor of a foreign country.

[Ultimo Tiger]

I realize the French and the British in their zeal have ordered a harsher punishment by the cat, but anything approaching or exceeding 100 lashes properly administered is roughly a death sentence.

Depends on the type of "Cat" used. A Navy one probably would kill someone with 100 but the Army version was nowhere near as severe (although still a painful and effective way of ripping the flesh from the body).