Calling all CV Weaps, Equip., A/C, A/C Group fans

[Jose Chaica]

Sometimes I find myself with questions concerning not a particular class of aircraft carrier ships, or even a particular aircraft carrier...And I don�t know were to place them, as these questions might concern SEVERAL ships or even classes.
Questions about Weapons, Equipment, Aircraft (and associated airgroups), Camouflage, etc are all welcome here. No particular ships or classes here, please. For that, please refer to the proper "Calling all..." thread.
Thanks.

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[Capt652]

Can someone, in a nutshell, explain how the gunners would fire a Bofors quad 40mm in conjunction with the mk. 51 directors?

Thanks

[keithhufnagel]

Go on line, search MK14 gunsight 20mm gun (which was on the Mk51 and 20mm guns). There is a great sight that explains it.

[Capt652]

Thanks Keith for your help. I found this site during my search that did a good job of explaining to me the way the system worked, with pictures of various directors
http://www.de220.com/Armament/Fire%20Di ... ectors.htm

[Jose Chaica]

I was wondering.....other than tow tractors and some (borrowed ) jeeps, what other "mechanized" vehicles were present in US Aircraft Carriers ???
I heard someone mention a "Tilly" crane, but I was only able to see one picture (one being ditched overboard after CV-13 Franklin was hit), so I�m not sure if it was standard equipment onboard US Carriers...Can someone put some light into this ???
Thanks.

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[CVN Clicker]

Jose,

Tilly cranes are standard, even on carriers today.

They can lift an aircraft and move it, dump it over the side, etc.

But I've never been able to find the origin of the name "Tilly."

[Jose Chaica]

Jose,

Tilly cranes are standard, even on carriers today.

They can lift an aircraft and move it, dump it over the side, etc.

But I've never been able to find the origin of the name "Tilly."

Do you know where to find WW2 photos, on this subject ???

Thanks.

.

[Essex]

Tilly crane...

Do you know where to find WW2 photos, on this subject ???

This crane was a standard equipment but photos are really rare. There are some picture where only the existence is obvious, but the details can not be seen. Some a photos are e.g.:

Warship Pictorial #22 USS Ticonderoga, page 10

Squadron/Signal On Deck #2 USS Lexington, page 12

Stefan Terzibaschitsch: Aircrfaft Carriers of the US Navy
- page 69 USS Franklin (during refit)
- page 92 USS Tarawa 1948

Norman Friedman: U.S. Aircraft Carriers, page 338 USS Bataan (CVL-29) 1951

I have found some closer view as well, but it's interesting: all of this photos taken on Essex. One picture is on the NavSource's Essex page, the other two picture were scanned from books.

[MM2CVS9]

Jose,

Tilly cranes are standard, even on carriers today.

They can lift an aircraft and move it, dump it over the side, etc.

But I've never been able to find the origin of the name "Tilly."

I've contacted a flight deck officer that was aboard ESSEX (from the Essex Assn). He thinks it was "born" with that name as it was called that when he went aboard in April 1944. I've got him cuious though. He's contacting some of the few veterans from that era that are left to try to find out. We have 18 "plank owners" still in the organization.

EJ

[Guest]

TILLY CRANE... was born of a short version of UTILITY crane for onboard carrier assorted duties. It was eventually shortened to 'utility'. No set date when that happened, but it was just simple passed on down word of mouth..

[MM2CVS9]

Yup, sounds right. The Navy has a nickname for virtually everything.

EJ

[Sr. Gopher]

For those who really need it, there are some models in the Gallery sporting a Tilly Crane, like this one: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

[EJM]

Anybody got info. on what color the deck tractors and/or other vehicles were on US WWII carriers? Was it kinda like an intermediate blue shade of color or something else?

[Sr. Gopher]

Have a look on my thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=52390

Russ was very helpful, and for once, nearly admitted defeat!

[keith hufnagel]

Again the movie "The Bridges at Toko-Ri" has some great shots of towes and 'tilly' during the Korean war, which had not changed significantly since WWII. Also . . . a great Movie for Essex class carrier flight deck footage. Oriskany I believe.

[Russ2146]

Deck Equip WW II:
Tilly:

Models

Aircraft Tugs:

B-NO-40 Moto-tug.jpg (38.46 KiB) Viewed 13901 times

Horn.jpg (38.36 KiB) Viewed 13901 times

Moto-Tug.jpg (44.82 KiB) Viewed 13901 times

[Russ2146]

For the record, the jeeps were not "borrowed", they were standard equipment.
28 October 1943: CVs, CVLs and CVEs - Automotive Equipment[/quote]

Jeeps:

[Sr. Gopher]

What was the point of having a moto-tug on a carrier, when the jeep could basically do everything. Or, why have jeeps on carriers in the first place? It never made sense to me.

[MM2CVS9]

For the record, the jeeps were not "borrowed", they were standard equipment.

That is according to the "official" records, October 1943.
I have seen personal photo's in the USS ESSEX Association memoribalia room, of jeeps being used on the ESSEX, the first new carrier to go to the pacific, taken in Early June, of jury rigged jeeps being used on the flight deck to help spot planes. I have heard the story first hand, from WWII flight deck officers. They had learned during the flight training with air group 9, the difficulty of moving these planes manualy. When the opportunity struck, a jeep was "appropriated" from the pier and jury rigged to pull planes. When the word got around and fleet officers saw how this helped, requests went out for vehicles for othe carriers as well. I have also not seen pictures of any carriers prior to Dec of 1942 with deck vehicles aboard, nor of ESSEX with them prior to June of 1943.

Also, the ESSEX Air Officer's used the angled flight line early on, even though the angled flight deck wouldn't be built for several years. It was actually an angled take off line. Flight dispatcher Officer Russel Volkema was the man that started doing this. The purpose was to allow the slip stream from the previous plane to disapate faster, allowing shorter wait times between launches. The Essex was able to launch and recover planes faster than other carriers until later in the war when a fleet officer, (actually Admiral John McCain - commander of task group 38). [Life and Death Aboard the USS ESSEX by Richard Sreb] came aboard to observe the methods used. Our officers attributed the eary success to the ability to respot planes faster, among other things.

I guess if you want to credit only the "official" written naval documents as being 100% true, you can, but I prefer to believe what I hear right from the horses mouth - the plank owners and other veterans that actually did the deeds. I was fortunate to have met with Mr. Streb here in Grand Rapids, to hear first hand about some of this stuff. This was a period of experimentation because all this stuff was still new, most of which had no training manuals or written instructions. A lot of what actually happened is disappearing forever, as the WWII generation is passing away very quickly now, taking this information with it. I know that lots of stuff happened on ESSEX in the 60's when I was aboard that will never hit the record books either.

EJ

[Russ2146]

Gopher,
Jeeps were 4 wheel drive = better traction. The tractors were 2 WD and narrower = sqeeze between planes.

EJ,
As a first class scrounger (E-7), I can fully appreciate the necessity to liberate property to enable successful completion of an organization's mission. However, I have noticed that it is much easier to retain possession of a piece of equipment when you are at least authorized to have at least one of that item. Having that authorization deters questions from the outside if it suddenly appears on deck as you pull away from North Island and the fact that the supply system had failed to provide is not well known. Having a few spares can also be hidden in the activity inherent to flight ops and suitably "stowed" during an inventory that might come up.

My father was an SC trouble shooter during that war and once liberated five 2 1/2 ton trucks on behalf of a California base that couldn't get their allotment through legitimate requisition. But, he was aware of another base that had a growing pile of packing cases. So he took 5 drivers and appeared at the box wealthy base, saying that he could use 5 truck loads but didn't have the trucks. That base happily loaded 5 trucks and sent him on his way. After the war, as a civilian employee of BuSandA (Bureau of Supplies and Accounts), he ran across the records of a California base that could not account for five trucks.