Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

[Tracy White]

I stumbled across these today... a japanese program with a six-part "tutorial" piece on building the Trumpeter 350th kit. Even though it's in Japanese, the production and how they edited makes it understandable if you don't speak Japanese. While the finished product is not built to be accurate, I Think the techniques shown may be useful to some builders.

Part 1 (fast forward to about 4:45 in to get past the introduction of the modeler building the kit)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1abmspT5aw

Part 2 (last minute of this one appears to be a tour of the Tamiya headquarters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpSXi1ZchYM

Part 3 (First three minutes continued the Tamiya tour)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCvmAdLDnag&NR=1

Part 4 (He goes way off the beaten path on color, but he does demonstrate pre-shading for those that haven't seen it done before)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KHUhzBJbW4&NR=1

Part 5 (Back to Tamiya about 1:20 in until about 6:15)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpS17tZGTqI&NR=1

Part 6 (He finishes the flight deck using a tedious but interesting method)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR2UVTXQbJU

[Blue Devil]

Hey all, long time no talk to!

I'm looking at actually picking up my Trumpy 1/350 Lexington to go with the incoming Akagi. My plan is to build it late '41 - early '42 with the 8" guns still installed and F2As on board. I think I have all the hardware I need, but I'm going to start the color question again. Back in May of '07 on this thread, Mike Sills says that he believes she was in Ms.12 at that period, and I've seen that suggestion in other places as well. Has that become the conventional wisdom at this point or have I been missing new info.?

Thanks for any help!

Michael

[Dick J]

There is a photo of Lex in MS-12 in Steve Wiper's Lexington class book. Since she was in MS-1 in October '41, then the MS-12 came after that time. There is also some aerial footage of her port side in MS-12 (History channel show with "Gunny" talking about the Pacific war). The aerial shots show F2A's on the deck. From Feb '42 until April, Lex had VF-3 on board with F4F's while VF-2 was trading its Buffalos for Wildcats, after which VF-2 returned aboard. So the footage was taken prior to Feb '42. Some on this board have indicated seeing magazine photos (either Life or National Geographic) of Lex in MS-12 at the time of Pearl harbor.

There are photos of Lex repainting from MS-12 into MS-11 (with navy blue instead of sea blue) after the 8" guns were removed in April of '42. Therefore, she appears to have been in MS-12, with 8" guns, from Dec '41 till April '42, conventional wisdom or not. F2A's would have been prior to Feb '42.

[David Hogue]

There is color footage of the Lexington in the DVD "First Flattops" that shows the ship painted blue overall with the planes in blue over grey prewar markings. Has anyone seen this footage?

[MartinJQuinn]

There is color footage of the Lexington in the DVD "First Flattops" that shows the ship painted blue overall with the planes in blue over grey prewar markings. Has anyone seen this footage?

Yes. I think Steve Wiper published some stills from this footage in his defunct warship modelers magazine as well.

[Elvis965]

Hi all,

I have just acquired a Trump[eter 1/350 Lex. My dad served on her at the time she sank and I have looked for a good kit to build but never found anything to suit. I tried a 1/700 scale but did not like the results. Once I got my kit I started looking online for info and found myself here. What a great happenstance. I have seen several build logs and gotten tons of info. What I thought would just be a simple model assembly has taken on a whole new course and now I am looking to get PE sets and additional details.

I have seen Pe sets from GMM and Tom's and wonder if there is any difference or whether one is better than the other.

Just for info I normally build old squareriggers so plastic is a whole new world for me.

Thanks to all who have contributed so far.

Welcome aboard!

I bought both sets for my Lex. Overall I preferred the Gold Medal Models set to the Tom's set, but the safety nets in the Tom's set are easier to use than the one's in the GMM set, since they have the mounting bracket on the end, and it's easier to glue to the ship.

You can see them in this picture:



You also might want to consider the Yankee Modelworks set. I'm pretty sure that it's safety nets have the mounting bracket, and I believe that it also has a PE aircraft crane (maybe someone can confirm that for me). For some reason, neither GMM or Tom's included that in their set.

Plus the PE fret that came with the YKM backdate kit I used was thicker than either the GMM or Tom's set, so that might be a little easier to work with if you haven't used PE before.

HTH. Post some progress pics after you get started!

Bob

[MartinJQuinn]

I have just acquired a Trump[eter 1/350 Lex. My dad served on her at the time she sank and I have looked for a good kit to build but never found anything to suit.

Welcome! Can you tell us what your Dad did aboard Lady Lex?

You also might want to consider the Yankee Modelworks set. I'm pretty sure that it's safety nets have the mounting bracket, and I believe that it also has a PE aircraft crane (maybe someone can confirm that for me). For some reason, neither GMM or Tom's included that in their set.

I don't think the YMW set has mounting brackets for the safety nets (I had bought a set before the GMM Set came out), but I can't be 100% sure. Best solution I found (thanks to another modeler who showed me) was to run a thin strip of evergreen just underneath the edge of the flight deck in the places where you want to mount the nets, then glue the nets to the top of the evergreen strip. I used this technique for my Sara build, and it worked great. A process that took me two or three days to do on Lex took me a couple hours on Sara.

As for the crane - yes the YMW set comes with a crane. However, when looking at the PE crane and the real one, they don't seem to match up. I'd just use the one in the kit.

[Dick J]

Copied from SN

Hi
I'm working on the Lexington and I have a few questions
1. Since the flight deck comes in 3 pieces .What is the best way to make the flight deck deck align properly with hull?
2.In March,1942 the Lexington recieved a modernization and a new paint scheme . Measure 11 -5-S Sea Blue. What version of Sea Blue - Dark Blue from 1941 or Blue-Gray from 1942.
I'm using acrylics and I have Badger's 5-S Sea Blue A for late 1941 or Model Masters Marine line 5-S Sea Blue 1942 which is a Blue-Gray.
Which should I use?
3.How were the ships boats painted. Were they kept in peacetime appearance or they repainted as the ship was?
4. What color should I paint the Flight deck.?
Norfolk 250N or Deck Blue 20-B.
5. The Lexington appears in photos at the Battle of Coral Sea to have 2 or 3 lines running down her flight deck . Are there 2 or 3? What color
should I use for them. I look forward to any reply.

Craig

The answers to all but the first question are.

2. MS-11 used, officially, Sea Blue which has the designation of 5-S. However, the Pacific Fleet decided that Sea Blue was not dark enough and faded too quickly to remain effective. So they substituted Navy Blue (5-N) in their MS-11. (MS-11 with Navy Blue was eventually "codified" into MS-21.) It is hard to confirm with absolute certainty using B&W shots, but photographic evidence seems to indicate Lex was in 5-N rather than 5-S. She seems too dark for 5-S.

3. Any boats would have been painted to match the background where they were stowed, in this case 5-N.

4. The flightdeck would have been Norfolk 250-N, which was a stain. Deck Blue, 20-B was a paint that would have been used on steel decks and the teak decks of surface ships. It was not used on the fir deck planks on flightdecks.

5. Be careful trying to interpret everything you see as "stripes" from a B&W photo. The Lexington's had several metal tracks running lengthwise down the flightdeck. The shine of the painted tracks contrasts with the dull finish of the stained wood and stands out in the photos. Over most of the length the tracks ran, there were three. But on the 1/700 Sara kit, Trumpy shows four for a short distance. I can't confirm the fourth track from the photos.

[Tracy White]

4. The flightdeck would have been Norfolk 250-N, which was a stain. Deck Blue, 20-B was a paint that would have been used on steel decks and the teak decks of surface ships. It was not used on the fir deck planks on flightdecks.

As an additional comment, it would appear that the flight deck markings were painted using a paint that resembled 5-O Ocean Gray.

[Dick J]

Another repost from the same thread.

longitudinal (?) expansion joints are often mistaken for deck markings.

Hi Jerry,

I am not sure I would characterize the tracks as "expansion joints" for several reasons.

First, any hull girder acts somewhat like an "I" beam. The top flange and bottom flange provide both longitudinal strength and resist twisting and torque. The strength deck and keel perform much the same function on a ship. Nothing outside the girder is strong enough to resist the stress. (If it was strong enough, it would act as a strength deck and throw all the hull girder calcualtions out the window.) Decks above the strength deck would either "wrinkle" (compression) or crack (tension) without expansion joints, as the hull flexed. On the Lexington's, the flightdeck was the strength deck, therefore no need for expansion joints. From Ranger through the Midway's, the hanger deck was the strength deck, so the flightdeck needed the joints. Also, expansion joints would weaken the strength deck, and would therefore be dangerous.

Second, the major stresses on a non-strength deck would be longitudinal, so the expansion joints would be transverse to allow longitudinal compression and tension without damage.

Third, these tracks continue across the elevators, in some locations. The elevators, being separate from the hull and deck proper, would not need expansion joints.

My theory is that they were intended to move seaplanes around the deck, but were hardly used, if ever. One problem with this idea is that, while the tracks cross the elevators, they are not continuous through the metal edges of the elevators, and elevator wells. Aside from that possibility, I can't explain them.

[Bob Dedmon]

I'm working on the Trumpy 1/350 planning to do her in the colors of the 4th quarter of 1941, Meausure 1, Measure 5. The only shot I've seen includes faint lines on the deck, my question is: are these fade through from the old yellow lines or are they new paint gray/white? The metal areas of the deck would they be deck blue #20 or prewar standard deck gray?

[Elvis965]

The deck stripes should be gray (Tracy mentioned 5-O above), as well as the LEX on the aft end of the flight deck.

Metal decks should be painted 5-D.

The flight deck should be Norfolk 250.

Bob

[lvsquarerigger]

[quote="Elvis965"]Welcome aboard!

I bought both sets for my Lex. Overall I preferred the Gold Medal Models set to the Tom's set, but the safety nets in the Tom's set are easier to use than the one's in the GMM set, since they have the mounting bracket on the end, and it's easier to glue to the ship.

[lvsquarerigger]

Welcome! Can you tell us what your Dad did aboard Lady Lex?

[lvsquarerigger]

The deck stripes should be light gray (Tracy mentioned 5-O above), as well as the LEX on the aft end of the flight deck.

Metal decks should be painted 5-D.

The flight deck should be Norfolk 250.

Bob

[lvsquarerigger]

I'm feeling my way around here and apparently I didn't reply in the correct way as the quotes showed up but not my messages with them. Hmmmm.

I'll try this way and see what happens.

Thanks for the welcomes and information.

My dad was a gunner on a dive or torpedo bomber, don't know which. He was shot down in the Battle of the Coral Sea, captured and later killed. I never knew him.

The talk of different paints has me in a tizzy. Do the numbers refer to the naval colors of the time? Model paints? both? Help please.

[Tracy White]

My dad was a gunner on a dive or torpedo bomber, don't know which. He was shot down in the Battle of the Coral Sea, captured and later killed. I never knew him.

The talk of different paints has me in a tizzy. Do the numbers refer to the naval colors of the time? Model paints? both? Help please.

Sorry to hear that you never knew your dad... you might be able to find out more by getting his service records at the National Archives
http://www.archives.gov/veterans/

In regards to the paints... yes, those are the Navy paint designations. Many people are familiar with the FS (Federal Standard) system but FS is a post-war system and there is no exact corresponding value, so we use the names and numbers to keep it straight. Elvis, for example, said "light gray" and then used the designation 5-O... well, there was a light gray, designated 5-L, so when he used the term he could have sown some confusion into the mix.

Depending on how much you want to get into it you might check out the ShipCamouflage.Com site; there are Navy topics at http://www.shipcamouflage.com/warship_camouflage.htm and a full listing of Navy paint colors in the paint chips section.

You can mix paints based off of those paint chip sets, find an equivilent that looks close to you, or buy paint already formulated to match, which is my preference. The easiest to get is White Ensign Colourcoats, which ShipCamouflage.Com carries. Testors had a Model Master's marine colors line, since discontinued, that had most of the colors in acrylic paints. You may still find them here and there.

[Elvis965]

Elvis, for example, said "light gray" and then used the designation 5-O... well, there was a light gray, designated 5-L, so when he used the term he could have sown some confusion into the mix.

OOPS!

I should have said "Ocean Gray"...not light gray....my bad....

Bob

[MartinJQuinn]

My dad was a gunner on a dive or torpedo bomber, don't know which. He was shot down in the Battle of the Coral Sea, captured and later killed. I never knew him.

The talk of different paints has me in a tizzy. Do the numbers refer to the naval colors of the time? Model paints? both? Help please.

I'm sorry to hear that your Dad was killed in action and that you never got to meet him. Thanks for the info with us and good luck on your build. If you need any help, please don't hesitate to ask - you'll find everyone here very helpful.

[John W.]

My dad was a gunner on a dive or torpedo bomber, don't know which. He was shot down in the Battle of the Coral Sea, captured and later killed. I never knew him.

The talk of different paints has me in a tizzy. Do the numbers refer to the naval colors of the time? Model paints? both? Help please.

Sorry to hear that you never knew your dad... you might be able to find out more by getting his service records at the National Archives
http://www.archives.gov/veterans/

In regards to the paints... yes, those are the Navy paint designations. Many people are familiar with the FS (Federal Standard) system but FS is a post-war system and there is no exact corresponding value, so we use the names and numbers to keep it straight. Elvis, for example, said "light gray" and then used the designation 5-O... well, there was a light gray, designated 5-L, so when he used the term he could have sown some confusion into the mix.

Depending on how much you want to get into it you might check out the ShipCamouflage.Com site; there are Navy topics at http://www.shipcamouflage.com/warship_camouflage.htm and a full listing of Navy paint colors in the paint chips section.

You can mix paints based off of those paint chip sets, find an equivilent that looks close to you, or buy paint already formulated to match, which is my preference. The easiest to get is White Ensign Colourcoats, which ShipCamouflage.Com carries. Testors had a Model Master's marine colors line, since discontinued, that had most of the colors in acrylic paints. You may still find them here and there.

Square - Just to add a bit to Tracy's comments:
When I first started to build the Tamiya MISSOURI, I chose the dazzle scheme 33-22D the ship wore for a short period during and after commissioning. I used the Tamiya paint recommendations (which employed Tamiya paint, natch.) and painted the hull. Somewhere soon after I suspended the project while I moved. I became aware of premixed colors for the USN WW II colors and bought some from Floquil (OOP now). Because the Floquil paints were matched to USN specs and not customer mixed from available paints, the colors were definitely VERY different. The key to the difference is that the colors I needed from early in the war to mid-war were compounded by the USN originally from a tinting base that was a so-called Purple Blue tinting base mixed in certain proportions with White to get the final color. So these model colors, now made by several manufacturers, including White Ensign, will have a distinct Purplish Bluish cast to them which is unmistakable. Even the so-called Grays such as 5-O, Ocean Gray, used the PB tinting base and have the distinctive PB cast to the Gray. When I look at the Tamiya MISSOURI hull with the Tamiya paint applied, the colors are all Grayish - not a hint of Purple Blue - because the Tamiya paint was formulated for other uses such as armor models.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but in my view the correct Purple Blue based colors are the only ones I'll use. To me, the difference is very noticeable, even if you are simulating faded paint. Fortunately, with several manufacturers producing the paints in several types (lacquer, enamel, acrylic) you have many choices. I won't debate which is 'better' since I'm not a paint expert. I have a similar opinion about the premixed colors for aircraft as well - you can definitely see the Bluish cast in the USN early War light Blue Gray used on aircraft as well. I think getting the colors right makes a big difference in the final model.