Calling all Queen Elizabeth-class (1914-1947) fans

[Gilbert]

Jim,

According to "Warship perspectives Vol.3 Camouflage of the RN 1943-1944", by Alen Raven, p.29, QE wood decks were unpainted at least until August 1943.

Colours used for her camouflage from june to august 1943 are MS2, B5, MS3 and MS4a.

cheers

Gilbert

[Sylvain Auger]

Jim,

I will also build the QE as in 1943 but mine will be in 1/700 scale. I can't wait to start the camouflage on this baby!

Concerning the deck there is a very nice picture of QE in the British Battleships of WW2 at the time of her repair in the USA and the deck is clearly unpainted teak. What I find challenging is finding a "good" picture of the camouflage on both sides of the ship. On most pictures I've got the shadows tend to blend in with some of the colors and it makes it very difficult to see where the camouflage starts and where the shadows begins.

I'll mostly use the Warshipe Perspective camouflage (as advised by M. Raven) but I will certainly make corrections to this scheme mainly on the starboard side of the superstructure. I'll probably do a drawing of the camouflage using a line art of the ship before actually painting the ship. That way I'll be able to make corrections without ever touching the model.

When I'm done with this drawing I could send it to you by email and you could check it out with the references you got I'll try to do that sometimes this week. Just let me know if you are interested.

Cheers

Sylvain

[JIM BAUMANN]

Hy Sylvain--I would be very interested in any findings you have/make...

1/700 eh..?=-- I started a cconversion on a WEM Warspite years ago--but stopped because of no 4.5 turrets

When the WEM Renown came out I did get some nice 4.5 turrets--and got sidetracked...( as one does!)

>>>.... very nice picture of QE in the British Battleships of WW2 at the time of her repair in the USA and the deck is clearly unpainted teak.<<<

I too have the book--but to be honest -IMHO-looking at the deck in those photos it could also jsut as well be be a painted grey...

The jury is still out on that one I believe...

From a aesthetic model viewpoint I would love it to be blached teak...

True--no camouflage on deck--but at that stage of the war--refitted at Norfolk--I do wonder if the USN practice would not have been adopted...

Cheers

JIM B

[Sylvain Auger]

Hi Jim,

The model I'm going to tackle is the HP models QE. I will definitely replace the 4.5 mounts with those from WEM and the main turrets with those from Admiraly Modelworks (not released yet). I don't know about accuracy of the kit yet since I haven't really started but I know it will be easier for me than attempting to convert Warspite!! Filling up the hull must have been quite a job

Cheers

Sylvain

[mifune]

Hy Sylvain--I would be very interested in any findings you have/make...

1/700 eh..?=-- I started a cconversion on a WEM Warspite years ago--but stopped because of no 4.5 turrets

When the WEM Renown came out I did get some nice 4.5 turrets--and got sidetracked...( as one does!)

>>>.... very nice picture of QE in the British Battleships of WW2 at the time of her repair in the USA and the deck is clearly unpainted teak.<<<

I too have the book--but to be honest -IMHO-looking at the deck in those photos it could also jsut as well be be a painted grey...

The jury is still out on that one I believe...

From a aesthetic model viewpoint I would love it to be blached teak...

True--no camouflage on deck--but at that stage of the war--refitted at Norfolk--I do wonder if the USN practice would not have been adopted...

Cheers

JIM B

HMS QE 700 in progress.jpg

Hello Jim!

I`m still looking for information for my Valiant and I just saw a DVD Royal navy at war:British Pacific and East Indies Fleets (a must see for everyone!!). There are nice seconds of black and white and color footage aboard QE, and in my opinion her wooden decks were not painted.

[JIM BAUMANN]

I have been sent numerous candid shots of life aboard QE post 1943--and it would seem her decks never got overpainted.

Whci is good-because it will make for a far more attractive looking model.

When I have completed my Courageous-I shall launch into QE with vigor!

JIM B

[mifune]

Hello!

Found something! Sorry about the poor quality...

[Sylvain Auger]

It's the first picture I've seen of the Valiant with this camouflage. Even if the picture is not the best quality it is still a very nice picture! Thanks for sharing

Cheers

Sylvain

[mifune]

It's the first picture I've seen of the Valiant with this camouflage. Even if the picture is not the best quality it is still a very nice picture! Thanks for sharing

Cheers

Sylvain

Thanks!

This is weird. She still has a Swordfish and no additional 20mm guns on A and Y turrets. Alan Raven states in his camouflage series that these colours were painted during repair at Durban after the Alexandria attack by Italians (December 1941).

One can see Valiant with these colours in photos showing the listing HMS Barham moments before exploding...

I think this is the same pattern but in modified form shown in my first post. Could it be? Sure looks partially the same. I remember reading from somewhere that after the Alexandria attack QE and Valiant had a false waterline painted. Valiant was a busy ship so what if this false waterline was later integrated to her camouflage?

[ar]

You have me at a disadvantage, please expand.
Alan Raven.

It's the first picture I've seen of the Valiant with this camouflage. Even if the picture is not the best quality it is still a very nice picture! Thanks for sharing :thumbs_up_1:

Cheers

Sylvain

Thanks!

This is weird. She still has a Swordfish and no additional 20mm guns on A and Y turrets. Alan Raven states in his camouflage series that these colours were painted during repair at Durban after the Alexandria attack by Italians (December 1941).

One can see Valiant with these colours in photos showing the listing HMS Barham moments before exploding...

I think this is the same pattern but in modified form shown in my first post. Could it be? Sure looks partially the same. I remember reading from somewhere that after the Alexandria attack QE and Valiant had a false waterline painted. Valiant was a busy ship so what if this false waterline was later integrated to her camouflage?

[Dino Carancini]

HMS Barham aircrafts and other considerations.

Watching this photo http://www.webalice.it/d.carancini/img/hms-barham.JPG ( my best resource at this time ) I noted that the two aircraft petrol tanks have been disembarked, in the following detail photo, just the lifebuoy is visible:



I think that during her last months servicing in the Mediterranean sea, she had no aircraft onboard, in my opinion this could be reasonable considering the small theatre of operations and the large use of fleet carriers.

I'm still not sure about the range of boat carried, I'm tempted to think that the Admiral's barge and the steam pinnace have been disembarked too.

Last thing I noted are the three anchors still in place, instead of just two like the other British capital ships of the time.

Ciao

Dino

[mike mccabe]

Dino
I think you are right about the aircraft, later photos of Barham never seem to have an aircraft on board. You are also possibly correct about the boats carried although I have chosen to include them anyway on my model. The area under the bridge where there are a number of carley rafts stowed is interesting, there seems to be far more support under the platform than previously, those floats must be attached to something after all. Earlier photos show only one large raft stowed vertically.

Mike

[Dino Carancini]

Hi Mike,

yes, it seems that under the signals deck the supports are far more complex than in the early photos.
Now I'm building the stern catwalk, proceding to complete the fit from the hull to the spotting top. I'm still confused about the shape of the Vickers platforms. On the drawings we are used to see them circular while in the photos they seem square, any thought about this?

Dino

[mike mccabe]

Dino
I must admit I've not seen a photo where they look square, it wouldn't seem to make much sense either for a weapon with a 360 degree rotation. I've stuck to round. As you are fitting the stern catwalk I must assume then that you aren't using the Profile Morskie as reference, the drawings don't show it!

Mike

[Dino Carancini]

... I'm not 100% sure about the shape of the paltforms, my opinion start from this poor aerial photo:



The fore Vickers in B turret is fitted on a square platform, nothing can be said for the one on the rangefinder, that I suppose round.
I'm not sure about the X mount, but the empty one on Y seems square.

http://www.webalice.it/d.carancini/img/hms-barham.JPG

As you said I've no drawings for the catwalk, I'm "proceeding at sight" with a good shot of QE at page 237 of British battleships of WWII

Can't wait to see your render of the Barham!

Dino

[mike mccabe]

Dino
Unless you have a higher resolution of the photo I can't make anything much out at all, it could even be a UP mounting on B turret.

Mike

[Dino Carancini]

Dino
Unless you have a higher resolution of the photo

Mike

...unfortunately not! as said before I haven't any proof but ther's something strange comparing the positions of the optics armor on the roof of B turret and the platform itself. Up mounting was round and over the rangefinder.

Anyway this is just to talk, who knows, it's possible that we will have more docs in the future, off curse with both our models completed in the display case

Dino

[mifune]

Hello,

Sorry Mr Raven. I have no idea where to expand. Please remember that these pictures are not mine. Just findings.

Found one more.

Valiant had roundels painted on her A and Y turret roofs at least in April 1940

You have me at a disadvantage, please expand.
Alan Raven.

Thanks!

This is weird. She still has a Swordfish and no additional 20mm guns on A and Y turrets. Alan Raven states in his camouflage series that these colours were painted during repair at Durban after the Alexandria attack by Italians (December 1941).

One can see Valiant with these colours in photos showing the listing HMS Barham moments before exploding...

I think this is the same pattern but in modified form shown in my first post. Could it be? Sure looks partially the same. I remember reading from somewhere that after the Alexandria attack QE and Valiant had a false waterline painted. Valiant was a busy ship so what if this false waterline was later integrated to her camouflage?

[Laurence Batchelor]

Been a long while since I posted here as I forget all about this thread.
I just wish to apologise and hold my hands up as I got this point wrong.
Barham definitely had NO TYPE 281 RADAR when sunk in November 1941.
What I was seeing on the wartime photos I had, was a blurry yardarm making it appear there were 2 horizontal lines, when in fact there was just one. On the same photos I could not see behind the foretop to confirm or disprove there was a 2nd antennae there on a stump mast. Also the famous Suda bay photo (reproduced in British Battleships By Raven & Roberts) which was cleared for publication during wartime, had the top of her mainmast censored in the wartime publication I have, which again made me think there must have been a reason for this.

What further confused me was Ray Burt in British Battleships 1919-1939 saying she had Type 281. He must be mistaken like I was.
Anyhow how I was able to completely dispel this error was I've managed to get some very sharp quality DVD footage taken of her sinking from Valiant; blown it up full-screen and take some screen captures.
Also I managed to locate 2 more stills photographs of her sinking which again showed the Admiral's pendant atop her mainmast confirming no radar antennae could have possibly been present.

Shall I post the photos here or in Dino's Barham thread?

Cheers
LB

[Gilbert]

Hello Lawrence,

Thanks for the update and clarification about radar. Please post the photos here. Looking forward to them. BTW, do you have any idea of the use of the small platforms
placed underneath the pom-poms (please refer to Dino's photo and commentary above) ?

Cheers

Gilbert