Postwar navy.

[mitchell300]

Amagi's not small...it's huge...

Besides, I had no say in the design of the BB6s.

Hmm must have had the QV in my mind >.>
Whit its 18'' trips x3 and very small

[Sauragnmon]

I'm not sure how it might alter things internally, I wasn't really thinking of it in That point, I was simply doing away with one of the features of the Spruances I dislike, the unaligned nature of the whole layout. I might centerline the stacks on other ones though, I'm not sure how that'll play out just yet.

[Cliffy B]

Sauragnmon, some thoughts arose as I looked at your Sprukidd; the Mk 26 GMLS can fire ASROCs so why not dump the ASROC pepper box launcher on the bow? It's field of fire is extremely limited with the Tomahawk ABLs on either side of it and you could add a 3rd ABL that way. Also the logic of the CIWS placement on the Sprucans seem limiting to me. They can only cover 2 opposite quarters of the ship. The placement on the Ticos seems more logical since they can both cover an entire side a piece. With either arrangement the ship will have to steer to align the mounts but to me it seems like the Tico arrangement would minimize steering. Again, just my thoughts on the subject, any comments/corrections welcome.

[Sauragnmon]

Far as I know, the Pepperbox and ABLs were used on Merrill and a handful of other Sprucans, at the time that was my main concept - it also gives additional ASROC storage and allows for more SM's in use with the Mk26 - I could also have put a Mk26 forward, but that might have been limited with the ABLs in place. It was something I looked over in thought before.

As to the CIWS placement, I agree, it is an odd one, but the only part I could change would be the move of the forward CIWS to sit right at the front of the bridge, to improve its field of fire that way. I don't know what else I could do with the aft one, as I will be putting SPG's on the aft mounting to support the Mk26 better.

[Cliffy B]

Remember though a destroyer's mission is primarily ASW with AAW as secondary. That's why the original Sprucans only got Sea Sparrow. CGs and DDGs VLS or not always carry a mixed load of missiles to cover all threats unless a specific mission requires more of one or the other.

The Mk26 can house 64 missiles. Allot 8 to ASROCs, dump the pepper box, and you still have have 56 SM-2s; more then enough. Basically dump 8 SM-2s and gain 4-8 TLAMs for the ABLs and still retain the same ASROC load. The TLAMs would be more valuable then the SAMs I think.

On a side note, if you re-arrange the stacks some major engine room and vent trunking re-arranging will have to be done too IE other thing will have to be moved around and the superstructure would probably look different. So if the stacks are both forward the aft superstructure could be altered mainly the helo hangar area could be greatly enlarged.

Make sure you add a SPS-48 and SPS-49 radar so you can take full advantage of your new AAW suite.

Again just 2 cents on the idea man. I'm not trying to force you do anything, this is a WHIFF after all

[Sauragnmon]

Spruances actually carried more than just the eight ASROC rounds in the pepperbox though - they had a belowdeck magazine, manually reloaded, for something like 16 Standard and a couple of Nuclear ASROC If I recall right. Probably, the allocation for Nuclear ASROC could be turned over for spare TLAM to reload the ABLs. The Mk26 suite was accomodated for on the Spruance design, though the Kidds didn't have full 64 round storage aft I think. I'm not sure right now.

I figured the engines were moved forward from the aft area, and the exhausts were trunked up the back of the forward structure as well. In exchange, electronics and systems that were in the previous spot would be moved aft. The stacks were somewhat mostly an aesthetic decision in my case.

Additional TLAM would be an interesting concept, but conceptually this is an export version. I might do the NTU suite inclusion, but I don't quite know just yet. I've got plans for a Seriously ASW fitting on another version, with better automation on the layout's reloading as well, but it'll be by and far much more different. I also think in future spruance Mods, I might do Centerlined Stacks instead of twinned stacks. I just don't like the off-center fore/aft layout, to my eye it looks... odd.

[kidcurrie42]

Hi All,
The Sprucan actually had the more logical placement for CIWS, when a missile is inbound, the way to deal with it is present the smallest possible target, therefore taking it on the bow or stern is the best option, ideal world would have given the ships 4 x CIWS, but have to make the best possible use of what you have.

Happy Modeling

John

[Cliffy B]

I stand corrected Kid

After talking to dad about the Sprucans' ASROC magazine I learned how it works. Apparently it reloads similar to the Mk13 or Mk26 GMLS. The pepper box rotates 180 and elevates 90 degrees, some hatches in the deck open and two ring mounts feed 8 fresh ASROCs up into the launcher automatically. ONLY the SPRUCANS had such a reload magazine, a vertical one that is. The Farragut had one aft of the launcher built into the superstructure that worked differently. I don't recall any other ships have such reload magazines (did California?). The nature of the vertical magazine in the Sprucans is what allowed a full 64 cell VLS to fit into the bow so easily.

Learn something new everyday...at least I did

[Sauragnmon]

Oh, that IS pretty interesting. I didn't know that. You Do learn something every day. Thanks for sharing that, Cliffy!

[kidcurrie42]

Hiya Cliffy,
Yes thanks for that info, i too did not know about that, me and Simon were actually discussing the loading arrangements for the Mk29, so any imput on that would also be great.

Happy Modeling

John

[Nektarios]

I stand corrected Kid

After talking to dad about the Sprucans' ASROC magazine I learned how it works. Apparently it reloads similar to the Mk13 or Mk26 GMLS. The pepper box rotates 180 and elevates 90 degrees, some hatches in the deck open and two ring mounts feed 8 fresh ASROCs up into the launcher automatically. ONLY the SPRUCANS had such a reload magazine, a vertical one that is. The Farragut had one aft of the launcher built into the superstructure that worked differently. I don't recall any other ships have such reload magazines (did California?). The nature of the vertical magazine in the Sprucans is what allowed a full 64 cell VLS to fit into the bow so easily.

Learn something new everyday...at least I did

California had a reload magazine fore of the ASROC launcher and i think that Knox had a reload magazine as well.

[Nektarios]

And speaking about modernised Spruance class.... this is my attempt to make a couple of Super Spruances.

The Armament has been upgraded with a second RAM launcher, a 16-cell Mk-48 VLS and MK-45 are mod.4 Also i replaced the aft mast with AEMSS







All comments and questions are welcome.

[gtb -red]

so well done as always. wonder if that 1/350 will have that type of clean.

[Cliffy B]

Hiya Cliffy,
Yes thanks for that info, i too did not know about that, me and Simon were actually discussing the loading arrangements for the Mk29, so any imput on that would also be great.

Happy Modeling

John

Alrighty, according to dad, the Sprucans had a magazine for the Sea Sparrow launcher directly aft of the mount under the helo deck. It contained 16 missiles or 2 re-loads and the rounds were loaded into the launcher by hand just like on all the other ships.

Fire away if you need to know anything else guys.

[Bob J]

Well I finally started taking pics of all my models. I have just under 400 built with a mix of WW2, Post war, pre WW2, and civilian. I'm posting some of the post war stuff. Some were built along time ago so the quality isnt that good. Tell me if you want to see more!
Bob J
Kusnetov

Kiev

HMS Ark Royal

HMS Illustrious

Uss Essex

ARG Group

[Bob J]

Some American Carriers
Coni

America

JCS

[Sauragnmon]

They look sexy, Bob - nicely done on the models!

[Nektarios]

Very beautiful collection Bob. I surely would like to see more pics of Connie, America and the ARG.

[Nektarios]

Here is a new interesting item that i found:

JMSDF Hyuga from a Japanese company called Aegisline.

[Sauragnmon]

Alright, compared to the first shots you showed me of the model, Nektarios, she definately looks quite nice - she'll look nice in your JMSDF Collection.